Alterac Valley - what would you like?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

[Fesz-cenarius]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

It doesn’t matter what the “no change” position you just defined is, because it isn’t Blizzard’s position.

[Fesz-cenarius]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

1.5 AV and 1.12 talents were both part of vanilla, were they not?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

1.5 AV and 1.12 talents were both part of vanilla, were they not?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents were never a thing a vanilla, so no.

[Fesz-cenarius]

It doesn’t matter what the “no change” position you just defined is, because it isn’t Blizzard’s position.

We have yet to see what Blizzard’s position is regarding AV, do we not?

We already know that they are not going to release Classic as strictly 1.12 since they are staggering content release.

Does that mean that they will incorporate earlier versions of some things that changed during Vanilla? I don’t know, and I doubt anyone other than Blizzard can answer that question.

[Fesz-cenarius]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

1.5 AV and 1.12 talents were both part of vanilla, were they not?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents were never a thing a vanilla, so no.

1.5 AV and 1.12 were both part of vanilla, even if you do not want to acknowledge that fact.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

1.5 AV and 1.12 talents were both part of vanilla, were they not?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents were never a thing a vanilla, so no.

1.5 AV and 1.12 were both part of vanilla, even if you do not want to acknowledge that fact.

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents and a ton of other changes were never part of vanilla, even if you don’t want to acknowledge that fact.

If you want vanilla 1.5 fine stand by that.

[Fesz-cenarius]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

1.5 AV and 1.12 talents were both part of vanilla, were they not?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents were never a thing a vanilla, so no.

1.5 AV and 1.12 were both part of vanilla, even if you do not want to acknowledge that fact.

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents and a ton of other changes were never part of vanilla, even if you don’t want to acknowledge that fact.

If you want vanilla 1.5 fine stand by that.

I want what has always been the “no change” stance–only elements from vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions) even if all those elements were never present in vanilla at the same time.

Continue to troll and misrepresent the “no change” position all you want to try to further your agenda, though. The forums are wise to you, your agenda and your tactics.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

1.5 AV and 1.12 talents were both part of vanilla, were they not?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents were never a thing a vanilla, so no.

1.5 AV and 1.12 were both part of vanilla, even if you do not want to acknowledge that fact.

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents and a ton of other changes were never part of vanilla, even if you don’t want to acknowledge that fact.

If you want vanilla 1.5 fine stand by that.

I want what has always been the “no change” stance–only elements from vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions) even if all those elements were never present in vanilla at the same time.

Continue to troll and misrepresent the “no change” position all you want to try to further your agenda, though. The forums are wise to you, your agenda and your tactics.

And yet blizzard has said they consider 1.12 the most complete version of vanilla. So pre 1.12 changes are just as invalid(or valid) as post 1.12 changes.

[Fesz-cenarius]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

1.5 AV and 1.12 talents were both part of vanilla, were they not?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents were never a thing a vanilla, so no.

1.5 AV and 1.12 were both part of vanilla, even if you do not want to acknowledge that fact.

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents and a ton of other changes were never part of vanilla, even if you don’t want to acknowledge that fact.

If you want vanilla 1.5 fine stand by that.

I want what has always been the “no change” stance–only elements from vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions) even if all those elements were never present in vanilla at the same time.

Continue to troll and misrepresent the “no change” position all you want to try to further your agenda, though. The forums are wise to you, your agenda and your tactics.

And yet blizzard has said they consider 1.12 the most complete version of vanilla. So pre 1.12 changes are just as invalid(or valid) as post 1.12 changes.

Only in your mind.

Blizzard may decide to use the 1.12 version of AV, despite the overwhelming support and desire for the earlier versions. They could just as easily decide to use one of those earlier version. Either one would be in keeping with vanilla.

We have yet to see which version they will use.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

We have yet to see what Blizzard’s position is regarding AV, do we not?

Not 100% definitely, no.

We already know that they are not going to release Classic as strictly 1.12 since they are staggering content release.

I want the more complete 1.5/1.6 version of AV. The difference between you and I, is that I know that the reasons I have for wanting it may not be met by simply porting an old version of AV into patch 1.12 and expecting it to play as it did in patch 1.5/1.6.

You’d rather 1.5/1.6 AV in patch 1.12 be a zerg, not resembling the reasons we want it in the first place, than to make even simple changes that would violate your “no changes” stance.

In an ideal world, I’d like Blizzard to have an extended beta where things like AV could be discussed in depth and we could test it extensively with different levels of gear, and try to find an appropriate level of tuning or balance that produced the best 1.5/1.6 AV we could possibly hope for.

There’s also some things outside of 1.5/1.6 that would need to be implemented to have the best AV possible

e.g.,

[Patch 1.7.0(2005-09-22): Fixed a bug that would cause players to stand up when a turnin was made in Alterac Valley.

Does that really add to the 1.5/1.6 experience?

Or how about this:

[Patch 1.8.0] (2005-10-10):

• In order to keep teams in Alterac Valley more numerically balanced, players will now enter Alterac Valley on a one-for-one basis (i.e. if there are 30 players in the battleground for each side with 10 players in the Alliance queue and 2 players in the Horde queue, only two players from each team will be added, bringing the total to 32 per side).

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

1.5 AV and 1.12 talents were both part of vanilla, were they not?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents were never a thing a vanilla, so no.

1.5 AV and 1.12 were both part of vanilla, even if you do not want to acknowledge that fact.

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents and a ton of other changes were never part of vanilla, even if you don’t want to acknowledge that fact.

If you want vanilla 1.5 fine stand by that.

I want what has always been the “no change” stance–only elements from vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions) even if all those elements were never present in vanilla at the same time.

Continue to troll and misrepresent the “no change” position all you want to try to further your agenda, though. The forums are wise to you, your agenda and your tactics.

And yet blizzard has said they consider 1.12 the most complete version of vanilla. So pre 1.12 changes are just as invalid(or valid) as post 1.12 changes.

Only in your mind.

Blizzard may decide to use the 1.12 version of AV, despite the overwhelming support and desire for the earlier versions. They could just as easily decide to use one of those earlier version. Either one would be in keeping with vanilla.

We have yet to see which version they will use.

Except that later versions of AV proved much more popular during vanilla.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

I want what has always been the “no change” stance–only elements from vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions) even if all those elements were never present in vanilla at the same time.

This stance is not synonymous with producing the best version of Classic, nor is it synonymous with producing the most authentic version.

[Fesz-cenarius]

We have yet to see what Blizzard’s position is regarding AV, do we not?

Not 100% definitely, no.

We already know that they are not going to release Classic as strictly 1.12 since they are staggering content release.

I want the more complete 1.5/1.6 version of AV. The difference between you and I, is that I know that the reasons I have for wanting it may not be met by simply porting an old version of AV into patch 1.12 and expecting it to play as it did in patch 1.5/1.6.

You’d rather 1.5/1.6 AV in patch 1.12 be a zerg, not resembling the reasons we want it in the first place, than to make even simple changes that would violate your “no changes” stance.

In an ideal world, I’d like Blizzard to have an extended beta where things like AV could be discussed in depth and we could test it extensively with different levels of gear, and try to find an appropriate level of tuning or balance that produced the best 1.5/1.6 AV we could possibly hope for.

There’s also some things outside of 1.5/1.6 that would need to be implemented to have the best AV possible

e.g.,

[Patch 1.7.0(2005-09-22): Fixed a bug that would cause players to stand up when a turnin was made in Alterac Valley.

Does that really add to the 1.5/1.6 experience?

Or how about this:

[Patch 1.8.0] (2005-10-10):

• In order to keep teams in Alterac Valley more numerically balanced, players will now enter Alterac Valley on a one-for-one basis (i.e. if there are 30 players in the battleground for each side with 10 players in the Alliance queue and 2 players in the Horde queue, only two players from each team will be added, bringing the total to 32 per side).

Where did I ever say that I wanted 1.5 AV to be a zerg?

I want an earlier version of AV sepcifically because I do not want AV to be a zerg.

As to the bug fix from 1.7, even if they used the 1.5 or 1.6 version of AV, I would expect that bug to be fixed as part of the bug fixes Blizzard said would be part of Classic.

[Fesz-cenarius]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.

Nope the #nochange crowd was always vanilla means vanilla. Then blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 and suddenly vanilla meant a frankenpatch which never was vanilla.

Sorry but 1.12 AV was vanilla so the legitimate #nochange crowd is getting what they wanted.

“Vanilla means vanilla” has always meant only elements that were part of vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions), even if those elements were not present in vanilla at the same time. Continuing to misrepresent the “no change” position in order to try to further your agenda does not alter that fact.

Were 1.5 and 1.6 also not part of vanilla?

What part of vanilla saw dual spec? What part of vanilla saw guild banks? What part of vanilla saw paladins given a taunt?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents was never vanilla.

1.5 AV and 1.12 talents were both part of vanilla, were they not?

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents were never a thing a vanilla, so no.

1.5 AV and 1.12 were both part of vanilla, even if you do not want to acknowledge that fact.

1.5 AV with 1.12 talents and a ton of other changes were never part of vanilla, even if you don’t want to acknowledge that fact.

If you want vanilla 1.5 fine stand by that.

I want what has always been the “no change” stance–only elements from vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions) even if all those elements were never present in vanilla at the same time.

Continue to troll and misrepresent the “no change” position all you want to try to further your agenda, though. The forums are wise to you, your agenda and your tactics.

And yet blizzard has said they consider 1.12 the most complete version of vanilla. So pre 1.12 changes are just as invalid(or valid) as post 1.12 changes.

Only in your mind.

Blizzard may decide to use the 1.12 version of AV, despite the overwhelming support and desire for the earlier versions. They could just as easily decide to use one of those earlier version. Either one would be in keeping with vanilla.

We have yet to see which version they will use.

Except that later versions of AV proved much more popular during vanilla.

Among those players with a convenience oriented mindset, possibly.

There were many strong objections to the changes that were made in an attempt to cater to that convenience oriented mindset, though.

[Fesz-cenarius]

I want what has always been the “no change” stance–only elements from vanilla (with the aforementioned exceptions) even if all those elements were never present in vanilla at the same time.

This stance is not synonymous with producing the best version of Classic, nor is it synonymous with producing the most authentic version.

Who gets to determine the “best version” of Classic? You? Me? Johnny?

What you may think is the “best version” of Classic may not be what I think is the “best version” of Classic. Johnny may think something else entirely is the “best version” of Classic.

We all have our own definition of “the best version” of Classic.

Ultimately, Blizzard will decide what will be included in Classic, even if that is not what Johnny thinks would be the “best version” of Classic. All we can do is to voice our opinions and let Blizzard know what we, as individuals, want.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

Where did I ever say that I wanted 1.5 AV to be a zerg?

I want an earlier version of AV sepcifically because I do not want AV to be a zerg.

I said that in the case that 1.5 AV ends up being a zerg in Classic (due to 1.12 Classes, items or any other number of other reasons), you’d rather that happen that make changes to stop it that would violate your “no changes” philosophy.

That’s the difference between us. We can agree on why we want something, and I’d rather we get there while you’d only want to get there as long as your echo chamber cult philosophy isn’t violated.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

Who gets to determine the “best version” of Classic? You? Me? Johnny?

Isn’t that what you’re trying to say? That we should have 1.5/1.6 AV because you and Johnny think it’s the best?