Alterac Valley - what would you like?

[Banjaa-deathwing]

Yes I did.

[Gnocci-emerald-dream]

And, starting with WotLK, they really, really did nerf raid content.

Existing raid content? I mean besides “nerfs” such as threat changes that arguably “nerfed” early vanilla raids.

For example, I cannot recall raids like MC and Onyxia being nerfed or content removed so that a majority of players could experience it. But the one single large-scale open-world-like BG experience available was. To what end? So more people could get the rewards more easily and then not run it again?

Blizard/Activision need to get it through their heads that many of us enjoy the content for what it is and are not solely focused on the gear.

LMAO they most definitely did not. The first time people summoned Ivus on Tichondrius it was a huge deal. 99% of AV back then was people fighting in the middle while others were in the mines gathering resources. I remember when people figured out that taking out a tower would despawn one of the warmasters, that was a huge deal.

I mean there were literal hours long fights over Snowfall GY before anyone even attempted to take out Galv or Bal.

People most definitely had no clue.

OK and what % of players to this day gather in the middle of WSG and between nodes in AB and fight? PVPers gonna PVP. Back in the day standing around the Field of Strife would earn you a spanking courtesy of Korrak. But then again back in the day you could accumulate healthy honor by PVPing in AV, and the BG encouraged conflict leading to PVP.

[Belkira-tichondrius]

I mean pservers haven’t been able to nail down a good AV yet, it is either way too much honor and everyone just spams AV zergs over and over OR it is not enough honor and you end up with groups of people doing nothing but sitting outside popular instances (Diremaul) farming HKs.

People know how to effectively farm AV for the maximum amount of honor which is why no matter what happens we’ll never see those week long AV battles again.

I find that the people who really enjoy PVP will end up in AB or WSG.

[Malfosa-whisperwind]

Classic players should be able to experience old AV again. The zerg style of AV is not in the spirit of the BG.

And the Alliance-Biased nerf to Horde won’t be in either

[Gnocci-emerald-dream]

I mean pservers haven’t been able to nail down a good AV yet,

PSs are lacking a bit of the resources to recreate the early versions properly. In other news, I have yet to nail down a good Corvette from the spare Buick parts I have in my garage.

People know how to effectively farm AV for the maximum amount of honor which is why no matter what happens we’ll never see those week long AV battles again.

Knowing the BG does not translate directly into shorter games. Especially when considering the early versions in which you HAD to peel the onion.

I find that the people who really enjoy PVP will end up in AB or WSG.

Hahaha, no. They are simply quicker options to get marks of honor. Those who love PVP are raiding capitals.

[Fjordrin-emerald-dream]

Didn’t really work???

Welcome to Earth, my friend, enjoy your stay. Try a hotpocket.

[Fjordrin-emerald-dream]

And yet oddly its the epic battles we pine for.

AV worked because it felt far more real than some cheesy playground bg. AV had heroes and mortal enemies, tragic tales and heroic moments…

The only old AV wars (not really a battle were they) I didn’t enjoy were the ones on my rogue where I more or less stayed dotted for two days straight.

Classic AV pvp is closer to a real pvp experience.

[Gnocci-emerald-dream]

And yet oddly its the epic battles we pine for.

AV worked because it felt far more real than some cheesy playground bg. AV had heroes and mortal enemies, tragic tales and heroic moments…

The only old AV wars (not really a battle were they) I didn’t enjoy were the ones on my rogue where I more or less stayed dotted for two days straight.

Classic AV pvp is closer to a real pvp experience.

Agreed. AV was to mimic WPVP and did so perfectly. You had quests, you had elite bosses, you had large scale battles. The icing was that you also had objectives that rewarded you with rep, and if you worked on it long enough you earned neat gear. Best improvement over WPVP was that you had a specific bracket of levels that you were fighting with and against, so it was not simple WPVP ganking.

Maybe the lack of ganking lowbies is what makes Zyrius poopoo on it as a WPVP-like BG.

[Fesz-cenarius]

They changed it based on overwhelming player feedback.

Which is one of the dumbest reasons in hindsight, and in viewing the game over its history. Overwhelming feedback does not equate to most people wanting changes, it simply means that you had a large number of whiners who wanted things more easy. Those that enjoyed tne BG as it was were not on the forum crying about things, they were in game enjoying themselves.

They got overwhelming NEGATIVE feedback once they began making the changes. I recall a regular supply if threads begging blizzard to return AV to what it was, but of course they just kept on nerfing and nerfing.

I cannot recall a SINGLE thread that was asking for AV to be nerfed.

They looked at usage of AV and saw that it was vastly unpopular compared to other BG’s and made changes accordingly. Those changes were inline with why people were avoiding AV, too much pve focus, too many NPC’s doing the fighting for you, games dragging on for days and queues that just wouldn’t pop up some servers etc…

Exactly what metrics did they use to determine the “unpopularity” of AV?

The number of times AV queues “popped” compared to WSG and AB? BG’s that take maybe 20 minutes “pop” more than a BG that can take days? That should not really surprise anyone.

The number of people queuing for AV compared to the number of people queuig for WSG and AB? A BG that can be completed in 20 minutes had more people queuing than a BG that took days? That’s not a real surprise, either.

AV queues “never popped”? If AV queues “never popped”, that must mean that the BG was already full and there were no empty spots to fill. I guess a BG that was always full and had a waiting list was not really popular at all. Oh, wait…

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

All of that is irrelevant to me. If you watch the Blizzcon 2005 pvp panel, they were already heading in the direction that bgs in general (and AV in particular) went: faster, more efficient. I have a vague memory of some dev saying something like, ‘You should be able to finish a bg on your lunch break.’

All of that is meaningless. Classic needs to offer something different. And giving a version before they made that divergence makes great sense. It’s so radically different from anything in the game. So few people experienced the first version. I honestly believe a good portion of players would play just to experience 1.5 or 1.6 AV.

[Gnocci-emerald-dream]

I have a vague memory of some dev saying something like, ‘You should be able to finish a bg on your lunch break.’

Well, you could always finish a BG during a lunch break. Just not all BGs. Also as I have said in the past, what devs intended has no bearing on what was.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I have a vague memory of some dev saying something like, ‘You should be able to finish a bg on your lunch break.’

Well, you could always finish a BG during a lunch break. Just not all BGs. Also as I have said in the past, what devs intended has no bearing on what was.

And what was was that blizzard heavily changed AV during vanilla.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

I agree, and variety is the spice of life. All the more reason to use a 1.5 or 1.6 version…if that’s even possible.

[Gnocci-emerald-dream]

And what was was that blizzard heavily changed AV during vanilla.

Did your cat just walk across your keyboard?
Your posts just went from annoying to gibberish word salad.

[Arazlok-kilrogg (Arazlok)]

I would prefer the quickest AV possible. But that’s not going to happen so I would like the one that 1.12 offered.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

And what was was that blizzard heavily changed AV during vanilla.

Did your cat just walk across your keyboard?
Your posts just went from annoying to gibberish word salad.

Nah you just don’t like what it said.

[Gnocci-emerald-dream]

Nah you just don’t like what it said.

As usual it was nonsense and your usual attempt at “changes happened during vanilla, so changes are on the table for classic”.

You refuse to accept that everyone is on to your gimmick at this point.

I would prefer the quickest AV possible.

Guess what, you already have access to the fastest AV possible. Hint: you can log on and play it right now.

[Fesz-cenarius]

I have a vague memory of some dev saying something like, ‘You should be able to finish a bg on your lunch break.’

Well, you could always finish a BG during a lunch break. Just not all BGs. Also as I have said in the past, what devs intended has no bearing on what was.

And what was was that blizzard heavily changed AV during vanilla.

AV did change during vanilla, but the 1.5 and 1.6 versions existed in vanilla, also.

Using the 1.12 version of AV would be in keeping with vanilla. It would also be in keeping with vanilla if Blizzard implemented the 1.5 or 1.6 version of AV. The vast majority of those who have, for ever a decade, been requesting that Blizzard provide a truer Classic experience would like to see either the 1.5 or the 1.6 version of AV implemented.

Of course, the very fact that the vast majority of those who have, for ever a decade, been requesting that Blizzard provide a truer Classic experience want the earlier version of AV means you oppose that earlier version of AV being used.

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

[Fesz-cenarius]

If those who desire a truer Classic experience wanted the 1.12 version of AV, you would likely oppose the 1.12 version and insist that the earlier version be used.

Get everyone who used to be #nochange until blizzard announced that they were using 1.12 to agree to 1.12 AV and then we’ll talk

You know very well that the “no change” position has always been no changes from beyond vanilla (with the exceptions of BNET integration, color blind access and bug and legitimate exploit fixes) and that a “frankenpatch” has always been acceptable to the “no change” faction.

That does not mesh with your agenda, though, so you continue your trolling by intentionally misrepresenting the “no change” stance in order to further your agenda.