Features present through 1.1 - 1.12 are not a change.
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Aaaah, yur so cute!
If itās not in the state it was in 1.12 itās a change.
I donāt care which version of AV is used so long as it falls in the 1.x.x timeline. Having said that, I do enjoy needling those who feel the Classic as a whole is doomed because theyāre not getting their favorite version of AV.
Also, while pancakes are great, Iām team french toast. Actually, Iām team melted butter and syrup. Itās just that french toast is the best delivery vehicle for them.
That too. What patch did DRs appear in?
Honestly, I think they were always in but I could be wrong.
What I DO know though, is that 1.12 made the DRs less harsh
- Honorable Kills now diminish at a rate 10% per kill rather than 25% per kill.
Whenever someone posts āAV 1.5ā, my brain now translates it as āearly AV contentā. All of the content that existed prior to 1.8. Specifying ā1.5ā is not doing our side of the debate any favors. It merely opens up the counter of how long the specific patch existed, which is meaningless on itās own.
Existed beyond 1.5:
- minefields
- shredders
- syndicate
- korrak, and his quest
- full strength npcs
- complete number of npcs
- larger map
- stuff I will remember after I have my coffeeā¦
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Good point BW. Early AV content it is. Itās not the patch that we care about its the content that was removed.
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Seriously, I donāt even care what they call the released version, as long as it includes all of those elements they stripped out and the rest that was neutered returned to the full strength stats. Those things existed for (if my calculations are correct) 126 days (June 6 through October 10) in live prior to removals and nerfs.
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No itās not, the same like time gating raids and loot.
BTW thanks for the last comment, itās clear you have an agenda and your opinion can be safely ignored.
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honestly as an alliance player I would appreciate horde turtleling and making the fight last forever. Then it would be like old AV lmao
Iām really curious why the idea of āno changesā is very difficult.
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Well technically, 1.12 is in Vanillaās timeline so it is no change ā¦ I think Blizzardās thought process behind this is that 1.5 to 1.8 were not hugely popular back in the day. Participation was low. But there was not many complains about it, just not many people would play the battleground compared to Warsong. They changed AV anywayā¦
But as usual, Blizzard doesnāt seem to understand the concept of fun. For them, the more people see the content the better it is: LFG, LFR, multiple difficulties for raids; it is all the same idea. All the community has to be able to easily access everything. The more people has access, the better it is they think.
But it is completely wrong. Popularity is different to enjoyment. I thought they understood that for Classic. They said āEven if a handful of players enjoy Classic, we will do itā. But clearly not.
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Thatās based on your assumption that noone enjoyed 1.11 AV and on.
Oh I donāt say that noone enjoyed 1.11 AV and on. But most people did not enjoy 1.11 AV and on.
Have a look at the forum with web archive in 2005,2006,2007 until patch 2.3 and you can see many posts saying AV is just a boring zerg fest.
It was even worse in TBC when you needed the marks to buy gear; you had to play AV. So in order to have it done quick, the horde would let alliance win by AFKing in the cave. Patch 2.2 introduced a feature to counter the AFKing in the caves. So people would do something (or jump in the cave). Then 2.3 was introduced, horde having the advantaged for once. But the Alliance QQ on the forums, and the boycott made Blizzard changed it again in patch 2.4.
So yeah, the big majority never really enjoyed AV after 1.11 you were just required to play it.
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/shrug and I recall a lot of complaining prior to 1.11 that AV was boring because it was too pve centric and slow paced. Believe it or not a lot of people did not enjoy sitting in a BG for hours and accomplishing nothing.
I was there from the beginning and do not recall seeing complaints about early AV. Nor did I see anyone complaining about it being āpve centricā. Making up stuff whole cloth to bolster a trolly agenda 15 years later seems like rotted sour grapes from the usual suspects.
We completed objectives, PVPed, and in doing so gained healthy amounts of rep and honor. Anyone who tries to say that they could not accomplish anything in early AV is a liar, or ignorant to how the BG was played and what was rewarded.
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So, Iām going to take a moment and just toss in my experience. I actually try to shy away from doing this, as I donāt want to appear biased toward wanting anything other than a more accurate archive of a feature of Vanilla that was -only- available during Vanilla. But, sure, Iāll bite, for just a moment, to showcase why, outside of my regularly-stated opinion, that AVs earlier than 1.11 brought something special to the table.
I cannot tell you if my first AVs were in 1.5 or 1.8-based AV. Iām sorry, I canāt. I donāt remember the timing, and I didnāt travel all that far outside my base. The first time I zoned in, I was in the early ranges of level to be there ā 53ish, probably? And I came looking to see what this BG was all about, as I heard it was both PvP and PvE, and that there were even quests to do.
On getting into AV, I was, in a word, confused. Think about it ā it was a -sprawling- battlefield, and in the early days not everyone just straight up rushed together. Thankfully there was a minute or two to talk in the cave and find out what you should be doing ā in my case, I was told āgo pick up quests and capture rams.ā
Well, okay then! At least I had a purpose. Being of lower level, I knew I wouldnāt be crazy helpful on the front-most lines, so I did as was asked of me ā I got quests and started taming rams and returning them. While doing that I saw a group near the mines, and went and helped them. And I watched the map. And I learned a bit about what was going on. It being early in the battle, I was relatively insulated, but I became aware of something while I was going about my business:
This was an instanced World PvP zone.
The idea of this place wasnāt to just be another BG, it wasnāt AB, it wasnāt WSG. It was designed to act like a regular zone with a quest hub for each faction, where one of the objectives was to capture the otherās whole base. Honestly? Itās a design Iāve never seen since in WoW (I did skip the Ashran expansion ā I hear good things, but I didnāt experience it). It was completely different, and it worked off completely different objectives.
This was a PvP zone where you could be questing to specifically help your faction and get ganked. And it happened! There were places where individual Horde could slip into the āsecureā area of the base, or rogues could slip in, and the lowbies would ask for a few higher levels to come help.
It was a completely different type of BG, modeled after a world PvP zone, so that even PvE-server players could experience it, and it was special because of it. (Before anyone says it ā I was on a PvP server.)
You can argue that it was too PvE-centric (something I do not recall anyone doing at the time, personally), but I argue that the PvE aspects are what made it better PvP. An argument for an earlier AV that I donāt see anyone explicitly stating, but hinting at, is the same arguments people make about rolling on PvP servers: it provides a uniqueness not found anywhere else, and I would argue that removing the āvEā aspects they did didnāt encourage PvP, but rather encouraged more PvE.
The design of original AV had a beautiful simplicity from what I experienced: build a zone that mimics World PvP, condensed into a single zone. Without the PvE aspects that were stripped away, though, itās just a WSG where the only goal is to kill the flag rather than capture it.
And so weāre missing an essential part of history in this museum.
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Honestly, I can guess there were a few posts saying there was not enough PvP early on. But I doubt it was an overall consensus ā¦
Participation was low but there were several reasons. Like, as there was no battlemaster before 1.8, so going all the way to hillsbrad, to queue in a 40v40 game could take a very very long time. Going there for the Alliance was long actually, and most people were hanging out in Orgrimmar and not UD. So yeah, going to the entrance was more complicated and having one popping up could be long. It was rare to have more than 2 BGs at the time for it.
With 1.8 added, you could use marks to increase your honor. Naturally, people would turn to AB and Warsong to collect the marks rather that AV that would take considerably longer. So same, participation was still low.
Doesnāt mean the BG was bad. And for a game like Classic, you need that kind of content for the long term of the game.
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Never saw a lack of PVP in early AV. Saw a LOT less once the nerfs happened.
Absolutely. Those are all handwaved away by those waving the āa random dev said it was unpopularā flag however.
MoHs were cancerous to the BGs.
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