A very immediate example for undead would be something more Ghoul like. Geist like? You could make chunkier, Kul Tiran like undead, or human like undead, or more abomination shaped undead. As I mentioned, it’s not a zero sum, and the “lore” is not a hurdle.
I still think the Horde should get Saberon since it shares the worgen model. They can just pull the lore for it out of their orifice like they did the Draenei.
So instead of “more elves” we’d get instead “more humans”. Either way you put it on the issue of the undead, it’s still more of the same race.
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Geists and Abominations are not particularly ‘human’ in shape, and could easily be changed about to be more unique in the ways they need to be. They also then both remain neither particularly human, nor elven. It was, also, but one example to illustrate that it absolutely does not ‘have’ to be an issue of “more of the same race”.
Ghoul dont even have a mind, same for Kul’tiran like undead or abobination. As much as i would like to play one of those, they are way to unlikely.
Undead human looking undead would be worst then what you dont want. Instead of looking like a horde race ( blood elf) they would look like a alliance race…
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They can have exactly as much mind as they require, that’s not something that’s an obstacle because it’s a writing related hiccup. Void Elves already set Blizzard’s precedent for that concern.
However I don’t disagree, they are very unlikely. It was only an example of one alternative.
You’re right, the issue would be with who’d play it. It’s a possible playable option, but no one has suggested such a thing until you. Plus, as an abomination, you wouldn’t exactly be…right in the head. Abominations are made mainly as golums, not really given much free will. They are constructs made for only one purpose, and that purpose is whatever their master deems it to be.
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Blizzard can change this at literally any time. For example, making up some new or otherwise ‘special’ classification of. Re; Void Elves.
Right, but why should they? If abominations really were a viable option, Sylvanas would have implemented them by now. It’s possible, but again, who would want to play them?
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I agree that it could be a alternative. But is more unlikely than san’layn. Not only they would need a completely rewrite of how they work but they would also need more work since it would be a new model. Considering how blizz said that Kul’tiran asked more work than they though, if they want to keep with the allied race i doubt that we will see many new model.
Btw i am not advocating for what i find would be the cooler, playing a skeleton or a abomination is maybe what i want the most. I am advocating for what could be easily add, would make sense and would fit the more into the allied race concept.
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See; Void Elves.
I never said it would be easy or quick work, I also don’t expect it to be particularly likely or probable. We’re on the same page there. It’s just not, specifically, any more unlikely than anything else. Kul Tiran are a pretty significant shift from the human model despite still being “just humans”, and two allied races set a deep quandry with sharing models across the faction barrier.
Blizzard decides how much work something does or doesn’t take, in as much as being responsible for conceptualizing and building whatever they decide on. For all intents and purposes, Night Worgen and San’layn could take just as much extra effort as Kul Tiran did, if they decided they wanted to commit to it.
We’ll see, though, there’s still a whole lot of waiting to do.
Yes, but people love elves. Not many think about abominations as playable assets. As I said, you’re the first to bring it up.
Look, why don’t you make your own thread on the topic? It’s not likely to be found on a thread advocating for other allied races. See if people want it or not. If they do, good for you, more power to your cause. But if not, well you pitched it. The option was on the table.
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I’m not invested in the idea, or much of the game in general. I also know that the reality of my bringing it up is effectively irrelevant to what Blizzard will actually produce.
So I discussed here what I could.
Werewolves vs vampires? I’m in! ![:heart_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/heart_eyes.png?v=6" ":heart_eyes:")
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If you pay attention to the Mag’har recruitment quest, when you return to Azeroth you might notice some saberon fleeing to the Barrens if you happen to be looking that way. This shows that they also escaped Draenor.
As for them hating both factions, well… you could have argued the same for the Zandalari and Dark Iron and Nightborne. How they feel and act in the past is largely irrelevant. This is a weak argument and I don’t really know what you’re trying to go with this here. Does this not apply to San’layn…?
Saberon, given the proper context, have learned to move behind feral and primitive urges. There are plenty of examples of this, but none the less they remain a very primitive race with connections to the Mag’har. (That’s why I think it would make sense for them to be a Horde race.)
The odds of Sethrakk being playable is quite low, though, so don’t rile yourself up too much about it. That said, I don’t know what you are trying to argue. I’m not suggesting that every race we’ve ever had contact with should join the faction they interacted with, I am just saying that Saberon or Sethrakk would be interesting choices as allied races, and both have valid “excuses” to add them.
None the less, I don’t find night elven worgen to be different or interesting, but as in most cases I could be convinced otherwise if work was put into them. I was hoping you would try to convince me by expressing how they might be different. Unfortunately, it seems you’re not really interested in that.
There are a lot of people who obsessively defend San’layn (or any other type of elf allied race, and that’s fine), but they no longer have any ties to the Horde and honestly, I find them to be incredibly boring. Do we really need a fifth elf race?
I cannot see San’layn being a good idea under any context. This is just a bad idea, and there are tons of better options out there. The only connection they had with the Horde was wiped out. The people obsessing over this are almost as bad as the high elf fanatics. We don’t need any more elf races, and anyone trying to pretend that this isn’t an elf race are frankly, delusional. If you want to argue for them despite that, then argue for what they actually are.
I’d rather see an actual undead race than yet another elf. We’ve been building up the redeemed undead for quite some time now–ever since the novel mentioned Calia being brought back as undead that wasn’t quite undead–and they would coincidentally fit very well with the Alliance. I’d be happy to see that.
I get that you really want these races to be playable, and I’m not trying to bash your thread, but your arguments for these races are weak. I could perhaps be convinced that night elf worgen were a good idea if a great deal of unique work was done on them to set them apart from standard worgen, but I don’t think there is anything that could convince me elven vampires would make for an interesting Horde race. (Not that you’ve even made an attempt to so, unironically.) Sorry.
4 playable elves out of 19 races IS ENOUGH. That is nearly 1/4 of the races right there.
No. More. Bloody. Elves.
First of all, we don’t bash and demand for allied races and politely request for them. I try hard to keep all discussion contained in the megathread–this one happens to hold a different, connected idea. I’m also not the OP. I argue lore, and how people say “I don’t like them” and “no more elves” and “boring” are opinions, because it’s true–they are. Much like how I think they’d be an excellent addition and are very interesting. The thing is, again, I argue lore reasons behind why I think they should be added. So please, stop painting me or the people that want them in a false light. No, I don’t support going into other threads and putting people down. I’ll point out what races I think are a terrible idea, in other words… Lightforged undead. Which is an opinion, just like yours, except again I use lore in saying it’d completely undermine undead as a whole and what’s been built.
So yeah, in conclusion? Don’t spread that sort of lie, it’s incredibly rude. Don’t compare us to high elves, because we’re not. And I’m sick of being shoved into a box with anyone. We’re our own thing.
To add, this is a disclaimer on the thread I run, that’s been there since the old forums were up:
So I don’t know where people are getting “Oh you San’layn supporters are pestering, begging, and demanding to no end!” from, because I at least certainly am not. I argue my case and why I disagree with something. I never demand anything, and try to support the Allied Races I think make sense even if I dislike them or have no desire to play them. Which are most. And not LF undead.
Once again, San’layn are undead. Just because you dislike them doesn’t suddenly ‘disqualify’ them.
So how does “wasn’t quite undead” make them more “perfect” for the undead allied race “Slot” (if there are actual slots) than San’layn…? And for the Alliance? That’s a spit in the face for most undead players right there. The entire concept and the race being slapped onto the Alliance. It’d be like Mah’gar orcs going Alliance.
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Fair enough, it is possible for these races to join the roster. Though if I’m honest, they’d fit better as their own core race.
They’d be awesome to play, but you have to admit that saberon are less likely then nelf worgen and san’layn. As for sethrakk, again, more likely to join the Horde after everything they’ve done for them. They’re rigged like worgen, but wouldn’t have any reason to join the Alliance.
I’ve already made my case on this matter countless times. Go back and read the comments addressing this opinion.
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Eh, no evidence of this. They’re shown in the war campaign to be allied with the horde…kind of testing for admittance, and it’s left at that. It’s not been expanded on further.
As for the Worgen, I’m curious to see if the island expedition quest leads to anything as a dev did say the purpose of those quests was to hint at some future stuff. I’d quite like to turn my night elf druid into a worgen. I’ve wanted a wolf feral form for ages. The Kul’Tiran feral form is a bit wolf like as well, but I like my Night Elf.
I think we need High Elves and San’layn and then we’ll have the bases covered.
I’m curious how it’d be handled. If they went for accuracy then she might just be a bit more pale and not have the breathing bit of the idle animation. Other than that, she’d look just like a human.
Then why bother trying? You’ve made up your mind.
From what I’ve seen over in the San’layn thread, I’d quite like seeing them added, especially if any of the fan made visuals are any indication of what could be done.
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I guess I wasn’t really being clear. Any type of player who is fanatical about seeing a particular race added to the game is going to come off as obnoxious. I shouldn’t have compared them perhaps to the players obsessed over high elves, but frankly, the result is the same. The difference is that most players vocally arguing for high elves are a bit unstable (in the sense that they explode whenever you try to explain why they shouldn’t be added).
I have seen players who are fanatically obsessed with seeing all sorts of races added, for Mok’nothal, for eredar, for high elves, for broken… even for races like the Wildhammer.
In short, please don’t take my comments on the worst type of players to apply to a group. I wasn’t clear and that much was my fault, and I do apologize, but I hope that this has cleared that misunderstanding up.
Now while I’ve made my own points very clear (I am very strongly opposed to San’layn, and the fact they are elves only hurts them further to me), I don’t hate them nor do I hate people who support them. But I cannot see anything being argued that would sway me on this.
You have my respect because unlike the OP, you have at least tried to argue for their existence…
The fact that they are yet another elf race is part of why I am opposed them. The fact that they are not working alongside the undead is another reason I am opposed to them. I feel that there are plenty of better races out there, but using words like ‘disqualify’ is ridiculous and ludicrously out of place. I never said they can’t be playable, I said that they shouldn’t be. And that hasn’t changed.
Um, what? First of all, it was perhaps a poor choice of words to call them ‘not quite undead’. But kudos to you for catching that, I suppose. If you want to pick apart every word I say, than this discussion is going to get tedious and boring very quickly. I say things out of place on occasion, so if you want to argue lore (something I love discussing), then that would be far more interesting to me than what basically boils down to ad homenin attacks.
With that out of the way, I fail to see why it is a ‘spit in the face’ for undead players. You are taking this ridiculously personally. In fact, your entire response to me has been taking what I said that was not directed at you and applying it to yourself as if I was trying to insult and attack you. You need to step back for a moment and calm down.
Either way, it would not be like Mag’har orcs going Alliance. It would be like Nightborne going Horde, or void elves going Alliance. And yet, those turned out to be okay. The blood elves weren’t up in arms about it, nor were the Alliance riled up about the nightborne (maybe a little, but no one was shocked by it).
Mag’har are distinctly Horde and have Horde values. The ‘redeemed undead’, like all forsaken, have their own views and can come to their own conclusions. In general, the undead are the least ‘Horde’ race, after the blood elves I suppose… so making an argument against this, but for San’layn feels rather out of place.
Furthermore, I’m not against Calia and the ‘redeemed undead’ being Horde, I am just saying that it opens up additional possibilities if Blizzard wanted to experiment with putting another Alliance-style race on the Horde, and Horde-style race on the Alliance. I’ve been very curious about Calia and the new type of undead race she seems to have become, far more so than San’layn.
In short, I was not directing my previous post at you, I’m certainly not ‘disqualifying’ them (I am arguing against them, not saying they aren’t allowed, only Blizzard can make that decision), and I cannot even begin to understand why you are taking this entire discussion so personally.
If you want to discuss lore, I’d absolutely be interested in that, otherwise I don’t think there’s much to do but pick apart each other’s words… and is that what you really want out of this? I find it boring.