Alliance in AV need to turtle

[Darthjaedr-tichondrius]

I think what you mean is that alliance needs to scorch earth themselves not necessarily turtle

[Misadventure-herod]

The definition of “sCoRcHeD eArTh” being “to play the BG as intended”, it would be awfully refreshing if alliance would do just that.

[Ifor-westfall]

@Bodicca-westfall

I’ve been in countless games where they don’t even worry about an IBGY soft cap - they just go all out on SH.

Yeah this is more or less the horde strategy now. Maximum effort into soft cap at SHGY before alliance can hard cap anything south, then hold choke and back cap anything that needs it. It only gets slightly tricky if alliance hard caps IBGY before horde gets SH. But even then, unless there’s huge numbers south, horde will be able to take IBGY back without losing SH.

[Misadventure-herod]

@Ifor-westfall

@Bodicca-westfall

I’ve been in countless games where they don’t even worry about an IBGY soft cap - they just go all out on SH.

Yeah this is more or less the horde strategy now. Maximum effort into soft cap at SHGY before alliance can hard cap anything south, then hold choke and back cap anything that needs it. It only gets slightly tricky if alliance hard caps IBGY before horde gets SH. But even then, unless there’s huge numbers south, horde will be able to take IBGY back without losing SH

Ancient Chinese Secret:
_{Assault stuff that is in the south part of the map (no, not just IB), and horde will go there}

[Darthjaedr-tichondrius]

Yeah and they will cap it back and still be able to get IB even if it’s hard capped because of the cave rez. Meanwhile alliance that die can be sent all way back to sp or db

[Fayld-westfall]

@Bodicca-westfall

And I’ll tell you straight up that before IBGY gets hard capped, Horde either retake it or launch an all out offensive on SH and cap that before returning to IBGY. I’ve been in countless games where they don’t even worry about an IBGY soft cap - they just go all out on SH.

I reached exalted yesterday. I won 4 games in AV total. In all 4 of those games Alliance played perfectly and Horde were the worst players I’ve come across.

You can go on and on forever about different strats for Alliance, but the outcome always, ALWAYS , depends on the Horde team. For every Alliance strat Horde have an easy and faster counter.

That’s cute. I was in 3 games this weekend. In 2 of those games IBGY got soft capped. In both of those games Horde sent 25ish back to reclaim IBGY which is exactly what I keep saying Horde does whenever this happens. Literally every time. Sorry, but I am not going to “take your opinion” over my own experience in AV on the Horde side doing exactly what I say we do. Over and over and over again. Every. Single. Time. And it isn’t like this is new. This is how Horde reacted 2 months ago. This is how Horde reacted 4 months ago. This is how Horde reacted in January.
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I am sure there are outliers, but to sit here and tell me that the response that I know for a fact is the response is somehow no longer the response even though it was literally the response in 2 of the 3 games I was in just 2 days ago makes me think that you aren’t paying much attention to the Horde side when you are playing. That’s fine btw. But don’t come in here telling me there is some kind of new Horde defense meta regarding IBGY and SHGY when there isn’t one.
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And yes, that massive run on sentence was intentional.
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Edit. And the only way Horde is doing what you are describing is if Alliance flat zerged IBGY and didn’t defend SHGY. If you left 5 at SHGY, you are losing it to the 15 Horde still zug zugging up there and that is an absolute failure by your players.

[Graal-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Notiam-heartseeker

Alliance in AV need to start defending more.

No, Alliance need to just play something else. AV is borked. I’ve played hundreds of games on a warrior, a hunter, and a healer. It is just ****ed for Alliance.

Don’t queue for AV, kids!

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Darthjaedr-tichondrius

I think what you mean is that alliance needs to scorch earth themselves not necessarily turtle

And I think you need to know what you’re talking about before you open your mouth about AV.

Alliance MUST D SH. It’s the only GY south of their starting cave BY THEIR BASE. Horde do not need to D IBGY since their starting cave is right behind IB. Horde have the option to forgo defense on IBGY, we don’t have that option - we can’t “scorched earth.”

If we had the same advantage and our cave were behind SH you’d have a point. But it isn’t so you don’t.

Unless your post was sarcastic, and in that case, nvm.

[Bodicca-westfall]

And I’ve played until exalted yesterday. So you can say whatever you like, I’ve been there done that.

[Fayld-westfall]

@Bodicca-westfall

And I’ve played until exalted yesterday. So you can say whatever you like, I’ve been there done that

Might want to take off those blinders you have on so you can count Horde next time you soft cap IBGY and then maybe your opinion will carry more weight.

[Fayld-westfall]

@Bodicca-westfall

How fck’n typical to tell someone else what their 100’s of AV’s were like. Pretty snotty and myopic of you.

Pot, meet kettle. You don’t play Horde and clearly don’t look around when you are playing against Horde because if you did you would see what I am describing. Or did I just happen to get into the 2 games this weekend where Horde wasn’t playing your mystical new strategy? Get outta here.

[Styls-herod]

After months of skipping AV. This AV weekend I jumped in for a couple of games. Won 2 on Friday out of 5, and zero Saturday and Sunday. I’m back to skipping this AV but this time forever. I don’t have the patience and certainly dont want to lose brain cells.

Alliance are still doing the same mistakes from over 6 months ago. Stealthers not pushing forward to help split horde 25+ defenders. Mages, not going kamikaze and AOE’n. I really enjoy CS’n a mage that does blink into us to AOE to watch him drop instantly. LOL. Hunters hardly using viper sting. I mean the list goes on and on. Yes, the scorth earth meta is ridiculous and I would love if the alliance adapted the same mentally. But for some reason they just hate to defend, I mean, I know why they want to leech those HK’s.

One major reason alliance loses are all the afk’rs and leechers. You will never win a 40v40 bg if only 25 people care to play. Yes, the imbalance maps is another topic in itself. But the real reason alliance loses are those afk’rs and leechers.

Allow for premades again, the horde dont need to premade you guys already contribute on a whole. Alliance need to weed out afk’rs and leechers to win. Premades allowed for that.

[Jadei-grobbulus]

I won 5, lost 8 on my mage and I’m done until maybe next AV weekend. The games we won weren’t because alliance played like pros, but more because horde were bad. They’re conditioned to owning the entire map and will lose games just trying to do that.

It was kinda funny watching horde go 30 deep on defense when alliance actually took IBGY. Horde fall apart and their offense comes to a halt. One of my wins was after horde had taken both DB Bunkers and AS, but fell back to defend Drek. They wiped a few times and lost a game that they were way ahead on.

After playing AV weekend, I’m even more convinced that horde are not better at AV. The map makes it easy for them.

[Misadventure-herod]

@Darthjaedr-tichondrius

Yeah and they will cap it back and still be able to get IB even if it’s hard capped because of the cave rez. Meanwhile alliance that die can be sent all way back to sp or db

You are right. Better to not try anything, because you might risk actual back and forth competition. That would be absurd in a BG.

[Darthjaedr-tichondrius]

Lol relax dude.

[Darthjaedr-tichondrius]

The best thing to do for a win (which isn’t worth the time for most players and isn’t acheivable for most groups) is to defend SH and take SF, then slowly push the horde back and take over the map with a team on defense. It’s not impossible to do but no matter what the game is always leveraged in favor of the horde because allies cannot reach SF first, and those who die there get sent all the way back to DB even when we have SHGY. The strat I’m talking about is what every one of the incendius premades has used to win when I’ve qued with them.

[Yohnstamos-netherwind]

I agree that the best strategy is to push SF while holding SH. Rushing IB results in more overall wins, but it is a loss when you don’t have the horde massively out gunned.

But that is kind of an overall theme. I’ve played tons of games on both factions (well past exalted, because both are hunters and it is fun to pew pew behind mountains at times), and people who don’t think horde have it easier don’t know what they are talking about. Does it also cascade into other issues? Absolutely. Like during non av weekend the alliance players in general are noticably worse. Because alliance rankers and people who just like to pvp in general don’t queue it.

But if the two teams are about the same? Horde will win. If alliance has horde slightly out gunned and is killing 1-2 times as many horde? Toss-up game or still horde favored.

What happens in those evenly matched games is alliance pushes SF or IB and soft caps it. Horde wears them down and takes it back, so ally attacks the other gy and soft cap it. Horde takes it back. Then horde soft caps SH once and alliance cannot take it back. At that point the option is to turtle until horde summons lok to break the hold on sp. This happens in every single game that is evenly matched or slightly ally favored.

And that’s another thing. I’ve played over 200 total avs during classic wow. I haven’t seen treesus summoned 1 single time. Horde doesn’t summon lok in 90% of games while alliance never summons theirs based on skill. It is because the ally summon spot is right where the stalemate always takes place. If the fighting isn’t happening there, you are either further back or have the horde so outgunned you don’t even need to summon him.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Yohnstamos-netherwind

I agree that the best strategy is to push SF while holding SH. Rushing IB results in more overall wins, but it is a loss when you don’t have the horde massively out gunned.

But so is pushing SF.

@Yohnstamos-netherwind

And that’s another thing. I’ve played over 200 total avs during classic wow. I haven’t seen treesus summoned 1 single time. Horde doesn’t summon lok in 90% of games while alliance never summons theirs based on skill. It is because the ally summon spot is right where the stalemate always takes place. If the fighting isn’t happening there, you are either further back or have the horde so outgunned you don’t even need to summon him.

The tree is harder to summon because of his summoning location and even when summoned he bugs out most of the time anyways unlike the the ice guy. Would be nice if blizzard would actually fix that…

[Meroco-deviate-delight]

@Mootwo-earthfury

Do you really think this? This is what alliance have been doing the whole time (on non-AV weekends).

It’s not what I think, it’s what I know. Anytime I sneak behind enemy lines there are so many non participants it is staggering. I’ll open up on one in the graveyard while others resurrect, and they just stand there while I pass the savings all around. It happens at least once a game.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Meroco-deviate-delight

@Mootwo-earthfury

Do you really think this? This is what alliance have been doing the whole time (on non-AV weekends).

It’s not what I think, it’s what I know. Anytime I sneak behind enemy lines there are so many non participants it is staggering. I’ll open up on one in the graveyard while others resurrect, and they just stand there while I pass the savings all aro und. It happens at least once a game.

And this is a falsehood, there are typically very few or non afk’s before SHGY is capped.