Alliance in AV need to start defending more. 40 man at shgy and spgy every game, horde needs to be punished for the scorched earth meta.
Call out afkers, call out the losers who sneak to kill Lts to get bonus honor and lose fast to do it again, enabling all the leechers in the first place.
Do you really think this? This is what alliance have been doing the whole time (on non-AV weekends). I was in a game once while rep grinding on my alliance. It was a full on turtle. After 2 hours and 30 minutes almost all of the horde rankers were gone and we were able to push go win at 2 hours 45 minutes. Any alliance ranker prefers a fast game on AV weekend, win or lose, and just won’t play AV outside of that leaving AV to the alliance rep grinders, AFKs and bots.
The problem with AFKers and leechers , is they have NO shame, as long as they get anything of value for doing nothing it will continue. What would you do if your friend or guildy was doing it?
The average Horde team is stronger man for man than the average Alliance team, better geared and more PvP orientated. That means almost every skirmish ends up in their favor, almost every 1v1 ends up in their favor. They can attack AND defend at the same time. You can ninja cap towers and GY but they respond quickly and in overwhelming force without stopping their overall push north.
How? There is NO downside to sweeping the map. They are playing to win and they bring their A game. They DESERVE to beat us silly and WE deserve a humiliating defeat.
This, start defending your bunkers more. Stop abandoning our towers after you capture them, as they make recapping for Rogues easy work.
Bunkers & Towers control Warmaster & Marshal spawns.
All you need is literally 5-10 people on defense, and that’s enough to cause havoc for the Horde.
Defending is not turtling, defending wins games.
this isn’t what they’re doing though. the most geared and capable players usually are going for the LTs and let the rest of their team fail on defence so they can go next quicker to kill another set of LTs. If this group was with the team defending, or present for the first push, games would be different.
but everyone is selfish and just wants that bonus honor, and getting it means you’re getting it for the 5-10 guys not even at their keyboards… imagine simping for someone elses honor.
I’d tell them things against the TOS so i won’t post that here
The problem is people are dumb. Back when alliance actually did AV most groups kicked/reported people defending because the “meta” was 6 minute wins. Most pugs obviously failed miserably at it. You’d wipe on Drek and people would blame the 5-10 people playing defense for not being there helping. Having instant queues doesn’t help either tbh. People just wanted to either win or lose in less than 10 minutes so they can requeue.
The average alliance player has no clue how AV works, and what is needed to win. They just complain about map balance while simultaneously not even trying to win.
well if you’re not going to try and win, you might as well make winning as miserable for the other team as possible.
Also pug players are the EXACT same on BOTH factions, equally useless. Both factions are the SAME players, alliance have just found an excuse to be lazy and still get the same rewards. While sucking all the FUN out of one of the best BGs in all of WoW.
BTW trying hard and still losing is also fun, and you can learn alot
Another brilliant Horde strategist here to lead us to victory
That’s more a punishment for alliance than horde. Horde are fine with an hour long game that ends in a win after they summon the ice guy.
I’ll disagree here. Each faction draws a different type of player. They started out similar, with most players choosing their faction based on looks, or Warcraft RTS reasons. But as wow has evolved, so has the playerbase.
Over the years the horde has become the more “serious” faction. Not to say there aren’t serious players on the alliance, but overall the alliance is much more casual. Just compare the two in BFA. There’s only like 2 servers that have good raid scenes alliance side, and take a look at how many alliance guilds are in the top 100. M+ is dead alliance side compared to horde, just look in the group finder. And they have to legit bribe alliance players to turn on warmode. The years of serious players going horde in retail has also carried over to classic. It is what it is.
Except alliance do just fine in WSG/AB so claiming alliance are worse doesn’t really work.
Because of the design of the graveyards at both SH and SP…that is a failed strat.
Alliance need to just play something else.
This, the real way to punish horde for scorched earth is to simply not play AV. Let them eat queue times.
At this point there’s many better alternatives to the rep items anyways.
Once SHGY falls, it’s game over anyway for Alliance because of the graveyard resurrection system. So defend like hell until SHGY falls and then never resurrect. Horde can scorch the earth with only NPC obstacles and a bunch of Alliance ghosts “viewing the content.”
It won’t be until it’s ridiculous for Horde before the system gets its desperately needed fix.
In my opinion/experience, 9/10 losses as an alliance player come from either a lack of leadership, or a conflict of leadership.
If someone with a bit of game sense takes control and the players actually listen, you can easily win games. There are a couple of choices you need to make. Starting split (100% left, 60% right or all right), do you do galv, do you hold IBT and take towers or do you push for RH and hold for GY. All these decisions (aside from the starting split) need to be reactionary to how many horde are defending. If it is only a few horde trying to halt the alliance offense, then just cleaning them up with your whole team and pushing quickly south is ussually the best play. If they are committing over half there team to defence, then the alliance need to all push for IBGY and hold it if they want to avoid a total turtle.
While many of the good BG leaders out there know when and what to call out for the rest of the team, when you get two or more people that want to lead but have conflicting decisions the BG is almost always a straight loss. Even before the gates have opened, sometimes there are huge arguments over what the initial strategy/split is which leads to half the team committing to each strategy and results in the alliance team being spread thin and easily picked off.
I’ve played extensively on both factions, and there are a few issues that snowball into alliance losing most AVs
The cave and the sh chokepoint. I’ve had many games where alliance is out killing horde by up to 2 times the kbs. But we take IB and get spammed from the cave. Then snowfall, but barely lose it before it caps. Then IB again, and back and forth. We contest each gy 3+ times, but as soon as we lose SH one time the game is over.
The instant queues make ally lose more. More alliance afk in av than on horde. Horde are more willing to defend, because they waited hours to get in. Most games during AV weekend, alliance lose SH instantly. Then the entire horde team spams IB to try and wipe people there. The games we’ve won are games where our team is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the horde team and able to defend against that.
Alliance rankers don’t queue AV. Why queue av and lose when you get instant ab/wsg queues? Not to mention queueing as a premade in those bgs. Horde, on the other hand, queue for av while doing ab and wsg all day. No big deal to leave your premade for a game or 2 and get a 6k bonus honor av win. Not only that, but alliance have the advantage in a lot of premade vs premade ab games, because many horde rankers queue wsg and ab as a 10 man.
The cave and sh chokepoint are huge factors. You’ll never see a horde team out kill alliance and lose an av, ever. But the queue is the bigger issue. Even if the cave was moved back, alliance would still lose most games on non av weekend, but they would probably win more on av weekend.
Just commenting to prove I have a char on both factions. Really, if you’ve played both sides it is obvious that the map is not only imbalanced, but because of the queues the alliance have worse average players on non av weekend and more afkers.
And before people bring up vanilla, I played vanilla where alliance did win a lot more.
Horde didn’t have a 2 hour queue in vanilla, so the race meta during this version of av was alive and well. Horde would let alliance take snowfall, and if you defended it your team lambasted you. Then horde would take sh and both teams would ignore each other and base race. Map imbalance was never an issue, because nobody actually fought the opposing team besides a handful of base defenderd
I agree with you Yohn, as a person who also has 60 hunters on both factions and queues for pvp as solo and in a premade.
I’d just like to see the alliance play hardball a little more often, i know group comp on both teams means alot; but id be lying if i havent been on the receiving end of some really good alliance teams when i play my horde. So i know theyre out there, you pesky nelf hunters and gnome mages
(IAM THE ORIGINAL POSTER, iam/notiam)
I wish we did that, too. It is extra annoying when we WIN a game and haven’t taken out any horde towers besides the ones in their base, while horde has killed all of ours.
Hell, it is common to have towers in our base fall while horde doesn’t even have sh.