Again, whatever makes a person feel superior. Made up numbers, etc. All the same.
I honestly think some min/max people are getting mad because Rets are being invited to groups. Some of the first legendaries went to Rets.
If you put equal gear / skill / consume use, on both Warriors and Ret Paladins. Ret Paladins do less than half the DPS of a Warrior.
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“Better than nothing” is not the standard for “viable.”
You need people that can put out adequate damage. Ret Paladins are not able to do that.
See this…this is the problematic root of your position. We are talking about whether these specs are viable as DPS, not whether you can complete a raid with them in the group. “Being able to succeed with them in the group” cannot be the standard for viability, because if it were, then an AFK dead player would be viable DPS. You can have an AFK dead player in your group and still down all the bosses. You have to get away from this notion that just because non-viable specs can be carried through a raid they are magically viable.
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Check the logs, those aren’t made up 
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Honestly, nobody relevant cares.
E-peeners are a retail thing, not a Classic thing.
This isn’t brand new, fresh, never-seen-before content that people are trying to ensure top notch damage just to clear it. There are literally hundreds of videos how to low-man or cheese it. Plus, people have already cleared these this month under-leveled in greens.
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Not really.
Warrior logs are sketchy because of Recklessness. Find a top warrior warrior log on a pull without rec and compare it to the top paladin logs for the fight. Sure, warrior is at an advantage, but without the 30m CDs, ret’s not really that far behind. In a fast clear of MC, a warrior might get 2 or 3 fights with Rec, out of the whole dungeon. Other raids are similar.
From personal experience, it’s very, very rare to find a warrior that beats me at all. Sure, the warrior has the capacity, and if played at the highest levels, yeah, warrior is better sure, but a well played paladin really isnt that bad.
I’ve played a fury/prot warrior in a naxx guild recently, I know how warrior works. A huge portion of their damage on parsing pulls comes from Rec, which makes you hit a LOT harder and a LOT more often. When rec is up during an execute, no class in the game can beat them, that’s just a fact, but its a 30 minute cooldown.
I cleared AQ40 in a Vanilla guild that would boot you from the run for linking DPS meters and brought ferals, rets, and a good number of people in PvP specs that min/max raiders would scoff at.
I won’t say what we are all thinking
Hate to break it to you, but this argument about “Ret DPS is viable” along with all the other meme specs, is 15 years old. It was a Vanilla thing, it became a Retail thing, and it is a Classic thing.
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I get this is apparently the insult of the day for the idiots who can’t parse basic math, but min/max was absolutely a thing in Vanilla so why on Earth would it not carry over to Classic?
Which require higher precision, specific specs, specific gear, and other model-based mastery of those classes. You know… those things the “epeeners” figured out.
and a guild killed Onyxia with nothing but Druids.
Just because you can, doesn’t me you should.
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Cool story bro.
This is not a logically valid argument. Apart from the fact that you cannot infer their intent on the purpose of specs and their viability in a raid environment based solely on the fact that they created those specs, what they intended in that regard is not necessarily what we got in the final product.
Logs display top parses only. All parsing warriors are on pulls with Reckessness up. In a practical raid setting, Reck is only up for 1/4 bosses.
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Rets were fine in vanilla. They were not topping the charts but they were brought to even the best guild’s raids. As stated, some of the first legendaries went to Rets.
Again, it’s not fresh, brand new, never-see-before content.
Why do people not get this?
You conveniently left out …
Fun fact, some of those people at 55 in greens were… drum roll … Ret!
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Why should we not raid with the same group of 40+ friends that worked their way together through everything while playing how we wanted to and having fun while successfully putting all PvE content up to Naxx on farm status?
That makes no sense at all.
They can do enough DPS for now to kill the boss, while bringing far more utility and flexibility than the other pures can. I understand Hunters are seen the same way since we don’t scale well, but min/maxing 15 year old content when it’s not even needed is ridiculous.
If this changes in AQ40 and Naxx sure, but for now it’s not even remotely necessary.
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This isn’t true. Don’t shoot our argument in the foot by saying nonsense. Every paladin in the top speed clearing guilds is holy.
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Go look at zone wides, the parses don’t lie.
Yet you think without Recklessness, Ret Paladins can keep up with Warrior dps…
something doesn’t add up.
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I mean now you’re just selectively reading.
There is gear other than tier sets, bud.