Thank you, I’m glad you liked it and I appreciate your valuable contribution to this discussion by stating so.
Who cares about parses in 15 year old content?
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How is the freshness of the content relevant? If we had accurately modeled everything 15yrs ago, people wouldn’t be freaking out about speed kills on Rag all over the forums, because the top guilds would have made it happen and we’d have video of that rather than video of Rogues never maintaining Slice and Dice and spamming Feint.
You specifically mention undermanning and cheese strategies… none of which incorporate Ret in any capacity. /giggle
Evidently even if a spec is looked down upon it will still get into raids, no sense in arguing over this stuff. Classic is much easier than people remember it being and all the raids will be cleared 1-2 days after being released anyways. Only people that won’t bring meme specs are hardcore raids who go for timed kills, but even guilds like who got server first Rag on faerlina took ret pallies and bear tanks with them because they knew it wouldn’t make much of a difference.
Is Classic General Discussion the only place on the internet where you can see people complain about how easy raiding is and ask for buffs while also claiming certain specs are so bad that you can’t take them into these ez mode raids?
Tune in next time to find out.
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rofl! What?
How. Is. The. Freshness. Of. The. Content. Relevant.
Okay, let’s take Fury warriors out of the equation entirely. Let’s compare them to Assassination Rogues.
On Lucifron, the logs show the average DPS at the 75th percentile is:
Assassination Rogue = 473.50
Ret Pally = 213.21
At the 90the percentile it’s:
Assassination Rogue = 603.45
Ret Pally = 256.06
You have no idea what you are talking about. Ret is MILES behind other melee DPS.
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While op is correct any spec can be considered viable but their is limited availability for specific specs. A boomkin giving a buff, enhancement shamans with nightblade providing a debuff, and shadow priest filling their own additions in raid are nice they aren’t necessarily needed. This means raids aren’t typically going to take more then 1 or 2 of these “not viable” specs. Also getting gear for some of these specs is a lot tougher. Look at all the tier 1/2/3 gear. It doesn’t typically offer any advantages for any other spec except 1 with the hybrid classes.
Warriors don’t have to drink. Warriors have higher trash uptime. In addition, paladins use heavy consumes on bosses only. The paladin builds focus on boss fights, which is really where the DPS matters. You don’t blow MCPs on trash, it’s just a bad idea. Zone wide really doesn’t say anything about the balance between the two.
Hahaha so much no here.
This was so prevalent during vanilla.
There are a low sample size for rets, and ret requires more work. You need to look at top players before you understand the spec’s potential. Unless the user has grinded for full consumes and MCPs, I wouldn’t call it a parse at all. There are a lot of absolutely awful rets sandbagging the ranks at most percentiles. The spec is incredibly preparation dependent. The scaling in ret from 75th to 100th is non-linear.
With rogues, you can go in there with less prep, which can still be a lot, and expect big dick numbers.
We’ve got guys like Judgement pulling 375+ on a handful of bosses.
Ret is behind. Ret is not that far behind. DPS checks are sub 200. Ret can beat 350 with effort.
No, they can’t. Other classes can do enough DPS to kill the bosses and make up for their deficiencies. They don’t bring that much utility or flexibility either. They could spec Resto, bring the same utility, and actually contribute to the raid’s success by bringing adequate healing.
Literally the best you can say for them is that they are better than nothing.
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Take a raid with nothing but Rets and Balance druids for DPS and let me know how it goes.
Then compare that to a raid with Warriors and Mages.
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I mean seeing how the content is tuned, it’s doable. Nobody is saying that mages and warriors aren’t better, just that the classes that aren’t THE BEST can also blow past DPS checks with no problem. Of course mages, warriors, and rogues are going to be better. Hybrids absolutely have the capacity to beat hunters and locks at this point.
None of this matters. its 15 year old content, and a lot of us have done it on undocumented servers that were 20-25% harder. A good deal of the higher level players at this point have recent experience.
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It was, I remember people who would flex their damage meters after trash pulls in 5 mans.
It was tiresome then, and it’ll be tiresome now, but you can’t hold back the tide. You can only go to higher ground.
While good for some uses, damage meters encourage players to focus on the wrong things (imo). The boss dying should be the goal of the entire raid. I would like the players in my raid to focus first on that goal.
Which means maximizing DPS because bosses only tend to die when their health reaches zero.
There are exceptions to be sure, but the long and short of it is that good DPS determines far far FAR more about your overall success in raiding than any other role. Healers and Tanks, especially in Vanilla, can make mistakes galore and most people won’t even notice it.
For good reasons
You think there are more bad Rets than bad Warriors?
Yes it is that far behind.
Have fun killing Rag, Domo, or Garr, with damage dealers averaging 200 dps each. Doable? sure, but I would rather beat my head against a wall than participate in that train wreck.
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Warriors do the most DPS. Only warriors should DPS. No other classes should DPS.
That’s where maximizing DPS first gets you.
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This is technically true. The best Ret DPS log available (for Lucifron) pulled 375.02 DPS. The problem is that absolute best performance for a Ret is inferior to the average Assassination Rogue parse at the 75th percentile, by over 20%. When you can play flawlessly and still not even approach the output of other classes played in an average way, that’s a non-viable DPS spec.
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