I don’t think specs will matter much until higher end raids. People with no talents can probably clear all the current content just with base class abilities. I healed UBRS last night on a 58 elemental shaman, solo for the first half of it.
Yes in Naxx or whatever you probably can’t do that, but such is the nature of vanilla raiding.
Ah, the bottomless pit known as a hole in thy logic. Why is there a diversity of classes brought to raids?
Not because they are necessary…
And no, you don’t need fury tanks at all. LOL. No wars plox, tank only!
It’s like you’ve forgotten the point of playing a game at all.
Uh, yeah, you just contradicted yourself.
Where meme specs are terrible in their damage for the most part people forget that they bring utility. Ret pallies provide aura coverage for the melee dps and tanks, along with more blessings. Have them equip a nightfall or something with an on hit effect and they suddenly prove their worth by making everyone else stronger.
Some classes may not be good on their own, but they can elevate others to be even better
Another example is shadow priest. If you have at least 4 warlocks in your raid then bringing a shadow priest becomes a desirable option as shadow weaving will make up for the low dps of a shadow priest by making the warlocks in the raid do more damage.
Explain with adequacy != I looked up a BiS list
There’s a difference in being able to determine the result of a power function, and being able to explain how a power function works and is derived.
No, you don’t need him because you can bring a Rogue that will DPS twice as well. That’s not a matter of my personal perception. It’s what the logs show. Facts don’t change just because you don’t like them.
I don’t know how many times I have to swat down this straw man. I’m not saying you have to exclude these specs. Groups that can afford to waste a slot on them and still succeed should feel welcome to do so. I’m saying that if you need to fill a raid slot with a player that can do decent, competitive DPS, then you won’t be bringing a Ret Pally or Enhance Shaman.
I’m not spouting logical fallacies. I’m accurately identifying the ones you are spouting. Claiming that everyone who can’t solo MC is being carried is falsely insinuating that they are all equivalent. They aren’t. Tanks who can keep threat and stay alive are vital to the success of a raid. Healers that can effectively keep people alive are vital to the success of a raid. DPS who can put out adequate damage so the mob dies before the healers run out of mana are vital to the success of a raid. Ret paladins cannot do any of those things and they are not vital to the success of a raid. Stop with the false equivalencies.
Well, you see, that’s the problem. Naxx had Ret Paladins, feral Druids, etc etc. it’s all been done.
Anyone thinking that there is some sort of issue is just suffering from trying to project their own perception upon reality that contradicts them.
I don’t know if they are seeking attention or confirmation but it’s annoying at best.
Fixed that for you.
165 posts
16 Troll Hunter0WoW Classic
Guys, classic raiding us on par with peewee football. There’s no reason to cut a 6 year old because he can’t keep up with the team average of a 10 second 5 yard dash in which you have to run in the right direction, and people that get all serious about it are an absolute joke, just like people min/maxing MC.
People min/max MC because that min/maxing is going to MATTER when AQ40 and Naxx drop. Better get used to it. Memespecs are viable in raids right now ONLY because it’s on patch 1.12 where everything was nerfed and a lot of classes saw significant buffs. Once the higher tier raids come into play memespecs will be laughed out of AQ40 and Naxx.
If it’s between the Retadin and nobody at all, then why not take him? He still brings a lot to the raid. You’re acting like every raid is overflowing with players… but we’re seeing a lot of raids kill bosses without 40 players.
Who are you arguing with? Yourself?
You don’t need a rogue any more than you need a Ret Paladin.
Lol
No. Maybe you need to read what I said.
Well. That’s wrong. You think a spec defines a class, or more distinctly, defines what a person can do. Fascinating. Hilariously inaccurate, but fascinating.
Do I need to break it down, or can I give you a few simple reasons?
Very little is “necessary”. No one said DPS Warriors or Mages are “necessary”. But you run a raid with neither, it will be significantly harder than if you ran a raid with no Ret Paladins or Balance druids.
Who said anything at all about Fury tanks? Do you just spout off random stuff and think it is clever?
Idk about you, but I do it to have fun. I am guessing most others do as well. The big cause for debate, is what is fun for some, is not for others.
Stacking a half dozen Ret Paladins or Moonkins in raid, is not fun for me. I do not want to spend 4 hours in Molten Core, because “Ret Paladins are viable”.
FTFY…
Its a player created mentality. If blizzard did want you to raid as enh shamy then they would not create it. Imo its bs that people force other players to play a certain build.
“Carried” is a subjective term. So many people I’ve seen claim they’re “carrying” people when they’re not. They only claimed that to make themselves look superior.
and 98% of the same utility they can bring as a healer.
Talking of private servers? I kind of just leveled to 60 since I didn’t want to invest a lot of time in to something Blizzard could shut down, so I didn’t know there was a “raiding meta” (for lack of a better term).
I just kind of assumed fights like Patchwerk might be too hard to achieve with ret and moonkin DPS running around.
What a shame it is that people prefer cohesive raid comps rather than do-whatever-you-feel-like because the former gets things done and quickly whereas the latter leads to slow kills, if a kill at all.
The game is not hard, but that compounds the many stupid and suboptimal problems in the game. MC is not punishing whatsoever, so plenty of half-AFK DPS can get by, see bosses die, and get loot. So when content starts to mildly turn up the heat, guilds fail, and suddenly folks want to know why things went to crap. Easy metrics are folks who, by virtue of attempting to DPS as a certain class or spec, are holding back the raid.
Hyper atomization is the death of MMOs, and is why we got LFG, LFR, etc.
When Ret Paladins are doing 1/3 to 1/2 of the DPS a Warrior is, that is being carried.
When stacking several of those specs causes raid clear times to be doubled or tripled, that is being carried.
it really depends on the effort you put in. I’m level 50 now and as long as I have consumes and prep, I’m competitive with other DPS. The thing about the memespecs is that while thy’re really not as bad as people say, they take a lot more effort to operate at a baseline level.
I’ve played ret pretty successfully, usually top 1 or 2 in DPS in the dungeons, but I’ve also seen ret players that just auto attack and do nothing. There’s a MASSIVE difference in throughput between auto attack andy rets and rets that come prepared to spam spells, with stacks of water, mana pots, etc. I really expected my performance to be a lot worse, and it is really bad if I run out of water and need to be mana conservative, but as long as I’m prepped and good to go, I can stand and bang with the best of them.