lol ok? 
This. A lot of this talk is off putting.
People were Min/Maxing 15 years ago in WoW. Expecting it to be different this time around would be foolish.
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I’ll just leave this here:
classic DOT warcraftlogs DOT com/zone/statistics/1000#dataset=75&boss=672
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Optimization is always a late-stage given for any game because you’re no longer seeing exciting new developments, you’re seeing the same moves, the same skills, the same strategies, etc. People are eventually going to get bored or they’re going to press the boundaries to see what does and doesn’t work. This happens in literally every single game and it is what ultimately gets people most riled up when they get invested in such things.
Seriously, even casual fans of professional and college sports aren’t merely experiencing the joys of friendly competition, they’re actively (sometimes even rabidly) analyzing plays, ref calls, everything.
Community builds around things that matter, you can’t just “build a community” around things people don’t care about. Optimization is something people care about, even if they never utter the word. They want to kill things with their chosen class, but they see that other people are killing things faster, so they’d rather like to go that fast or faster themselves. Voila
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Except you never needed a full 40 man of top tier players/specs even in Vanilla outside of maybe Naxx and it’s not like the “meme” specs bring nothing.
A DPS Shaman still brings Totems and Chain Heal. A Ret Pally still brings Blessings and can Cleanse and Heal. A Shadow Priest brings Shadow Weaving and VE, etc. If you have people in your Guild who like those specs there’s no reason to skip over them to fill out the last 10 or so slots in a 40 man Raid in Classic.
The tuning was always loose back then and it seems it’s even more so now.
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Until the raid wipes…
“Uggh larry can you go Holy? Resto ?”
" Mary we need another warrior for Horsemen"
That isn’t a false equivalence. Your perception that group content requiring groups must mean that I’m arguing for Ret pally is, however. Seems you have some projecting going on.
Tanks, dps, and heals are all interdependent for clearing raids.
Therefore, yes, you need that Ret Paladin as he is dps. Your personal perception is not relevant nor rational. You can clear the current raids with sub-60’s in greens. Ret Paladins were in the first Naxx clear raids.
There is no need to have a exclusionary standard for certain classes and specialization. This ideology is nonsensical.
If you are going to spout logical fallacies, learn how logic works first.
Sounds like a bad guild. Name a raid wipe that was entirely because you needed one more healer.
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You stack Ret Paladins, Balance Druids, or DPS Shamans, the way guilds stack Fury Warriors or Mages and see how well you do.
Not a single person here has said raids can not be cleared with a meme spec in the raid. The classes are not balanced, they are not all created equal, that is part of the reason many of us like this era of WoW.
Stop pretending a Ret Paladin is anything more than dead weight. If your guild brings a couple meme specs along, (like mine does). Good on you. But you can’t get butt hurt when people tell you, they don’t want to bring a Ret because they don’t want to carry meme specs.
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Yeah that’s the logic. Or maybe when you lose at something you look at all aspects you can change. Making someone who is playing a low performing but “viable” spec is one of those things.
But hey I guess some people when they get a “F” on a math test they go get a brain transplant instead of working on several little things.
For some reason, people confuse the difference. But most guilds fill their raids with what’s optimal, not merely what’s viable.
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If people can kill Rag week one in greens and not even lvl 60 then yeah, absolutely, all specs are viable. Totally agree with OP. Have some fun, break the meta.
Of course not. Because they’d be wrong. Just like they are wrong to say they are “deadweight” (which is incorrect terminology, maybe trying to be passive aggressive?).
I’m not sure what a “meme” spec is. I do know it’s a private server term, however, I’m not sure where the definition ends as you can technically apply that to whatever you don’t currently like.
Thanks captain obvious. We can all sleep well tonight with the open sharing of such knowledge that carries such newness and gravity as to create a new perspective of WoW.
That’s sarcasm.
Sounds like you take this as some sort of personal affront. There are no useless classes in classic, therefore there are no “deadweight” classes.
So if I don’t get into a guild as a rogue, or shaman, or warrior, or mage, or warlock, or whatever…I’m allowed to be butt hurt?
Mind exploded. 500 IQ Deep Think.
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what spec is afk?
That’s how soon to be dead guilds behave. They throw everything they know at the wall at the problem.
Not enough healers.
Not enough tanks.
Not that the issue with most wipes is actually aggro loss. But the MT is the raid lead. So throw another healer in there, maybe that’ll work?
I’m not saying in a technical sense having off specs was the reason for the wipe. I am saying the culture and how humans naturally look at losses.
I’m saying this as a Shadow priest who raided in vanilla. People look at you oddly when it hits the fan.
If people are stuck in 2006, that’s their problem. And while I’m sure people who don’t know what YouTube is may have this issue, the vast majority do not.
Most players are not mindless parrots.
But there are useless specs, aka “meme specs”
Ret Paladin
Balance Druid
Elemental / Enhancement Shamans
There is no reason to bring any of those specs to a raid, other than you are just trying to fill a slot. We have a couple “meme specs” in our raids, because it isn’t a big deal to bring a couple a long and we like the people who are playing them.
The issue arises when your raid has several, it makes the fights significantly harder than they need to be. That’s why you don’t see guild bringing 6-8 Ret Paladins or Balance Druids, but they do bring that many Warriors or Mages.
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What planet are you living on? Most people couldn’t explain how or why they’re using the gear or spec they are with any level of adequacy and most would say “I looked up a BiS list.” This is true in almost every single facet of life, including professional circuits where more people than not don’t actually have any sort of real understanding beyond what they learned using rote memorization.
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