Sure they can! In pvp, questing, and even in dungeons the spec isn’t a big deal.
The thing is in raids, ya a guild can (and we do) carry a couple of the “meme” specs.
But you have to draw the line somewhere, If you get to the point of 4 or 5 Ret Paladins, a couple Feral and a couple Balance druids, you just made your raid twice as difficult, and not too many sign up to carry a 8-10 meme specs through raids and give them loot.
Just like everything in life, moderation is key.
If a raid takes one minute longer because you were a suboptimal spec, that is 40 man minutes that could have been used elsewhere. Everytime you are afk on trash just wastes everyone else’s time. You are not special, other peoples time matters.
Nah 1 dropped for my hunter main about a year ago.
This. With rhings rolling over and dying in 2 seconds who cares. All this may change when naxx comes out.
Finally someone who sees beyond the “meta” mentality
It was said earlier in the thread, and it’s the typical sentiment of most elitists. But like someone else said, any contribution to the raid is a meaningful contribution. Everyone is technically being carried by everyone else since you can’t solo a raid. And on viability, if the bosses are being downed, then the specs are viable. They may not be optimal for a speed clear, but they certainly are viable.
Bosses are being downed with less than full raids, so does that mean afk at the entrance is a viable spec?
Being carried through a raid does not make a spec viable.
A dead player can be in the raid and the bosses still downed.
Dead players are viable.
Personally I think any guild that doesn’t keep 1 or 2 Prot-ret speced pally for healer threat offset or healer add protection in 40 mans is crazy.
Also a Prot-ret pally can tank regular dungeons just fine.
All classes and specs can be utilized in any content, but finding people willing to think past the cookie cutter mentality is not so easy. Been telling, and showing people, since vanilla to get their heads out of the cookie jar.
Again… all classes/specs bring something… And outside of the spec… is the person, the friend, the guildie, the raidmate. Have they helped others level? Have they contributed to the raid with consumables? Materials? Herbs? Did they level their first aid to max? Did they give guildies items to help them level their professions? Did they level enchanting to max and are able to help guildies with enchants?
It’s Classic man… think outside of Recount numbers.
um what? i think you jumbled up something there. Unless my head is in the cookie jar and I just don’t get it.
None of that has to do with this conversation. Can you clear raid zones with meme specs in raid? Yes, no one is arguing that. I even said my guild bring a couple.
The argument is, there is a reason they are called meme specs. It isn’t elitist to say Ret Paladins are lucky if they do half the damage of a Fury War. It isn’t elitist to say that if you bring too many meme specs, your guild is going to be working significantly harder to kill raid mobs, and that isn’t fair to the rest of the guild.
you can play what ever you want, no one can tell you not to but it doesn’t entitle you to a raid or dungeon spot.
If you have a raid that doesn’t mind carrying you, then good for you. When the harder raids come out, be ready to find less leniency.
I do hope all the “play what you want” people take responsibility later and help those ret pallies and boomkins reroll or regear
This exactly.
I really do think we need WoW Elite.
There will be one Tank Class… I think We’ll call it Tank. There will be no spec choices as only one is optimal why give choice? We’ll allow 1 ability Uber-Taunt. This will perma-aggro all mobs in Line of Site
Next we’ll have Melee DPS… For fun well call it Stabby. There will be an option to choose sword, dagger, or axe. All will be identical stats. Abilites are not needed just auto attack. else one may be less optimal than another through sheer skill.
Finally we’ll have Range DPS, We’ll creatively call this one PewPew
This class will have 2 spells. Shoot: our single target spell and Boom: our AOE spell.
There will be no need for healing as Tanks will be self healing through passive damage based regeneration, and besides… a healer slows down our run.
Finally we’ll limit all encounters to 3.2 minutes as that has been determined to be optimal attention span. Upon the expiration of the timer the boss will automatically drop to 1 HP.
The system will then parse each player’s inventory and award an epic item based on need. Once the player has all BIS the system will generate a higher iLevel item than currently available this will ensure re-play viability for our new game.
Did you know classes can be different AND not have hybrids doing 70% less damage with no/minimal unique utility not offered as their healing spec?
But i wouldnt want changes, its classic after all.
False equivalence is false. A tank is necessary to successfully kill bosses. A Ret Pally pulling 200 DPS isn’t necessary to kill a raid boss.
This is nonsensical. I can take my 3 year old niece with me to do an escape room. If I let her enter the code at the end so we can unlock the door, she is technically contributing, but she isn’t meaningfully contributing. Her contribution is irrelevant to our group’s success.
A player who dies after hitting the boss twice technically contributed. Does that mean that dying in the first 10 seconds of the fight is viable? Of course not.
Again, you don’t understand the meaning of the word “viable” in this context. You seem to believe that anything which does not guarantee a wipe is viable. No one is arguing that success is impossible if you bring a Ret Pally to the raid. The point is that a Ret Pally even played flawlessly does not bring anything to the raid that makes it more useful for downing the boss than even an average player from another spec in that slot.
You are 100% missing the point. A player can bring everything to the table that you just talked about and choose to spec as a healer or choose a class that can actually do decent DPS. That will always be preferable to making those same contributions while playing a class that cannot contribute decent DPS or healing to the raid.
Someone forgot about the Hybrid Tax.
Bliz called it the hybrid buff when it comes to warriors and fullfilling multiple roles.
Best tank AND best dps.
70% on a good day 
70% less 