You know what else brings that utility?
A healing paladin.
Frees up that dps spot AND keep the utility.
By design, a dps having that utility is more of a dungeon than raid thing.
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Not according to Icy Veins.
You’re playing an MMO, not a solo player game. What YOU want is actually not the primary focus and never has been.
Not sure how many times I have to say it, my guild has a few meme specs in raid, including a Ret Paladin. We also (along with another guild) got server 1st on Rag and Ony. I am not saying don’t bring a meme spec to raid, never have said that.
Just saying that you don’t bring a Ret Paladin because you want melee dps, you bring one because he is a good guildy, or you just happen to have a spot open.
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If you’re playing something you don’t want to because some random person on the internet is telling you to, you’re in the wrong group.
People forget that Vanilla doesn’t have spec lock like retail does. The vast majority of spells/abilities for classes are available for all specs. A boomkin can still throw out heals if needed. So can a ret pally. Sure, it won’t be optimal, but no one in vanilla was “optimal.”
This thread has me thinking back and for the life of me I can’t think of a single time in Vanilla when my guild hit a progression wall because we did not have enough dps.
Every single time we spent a week or two wiping before getting a boss down, it was an issue of learning the fight, and every single time we downed a boss that had been giving us trouble for a while, as soon as we downed him it went from seeming impossible to becoming a given kill.
Sarcasm can be hard to pick up in text sometimes.
Actually, he beats some of them. Remember that the absolute best Ret parse is just barely ahead of the average Assass Rogue Parse at the 50th percentile and it’s actually still losing to the average Fury Warrior parse at the 50th percentile.
If your goal is to become one of the most skilled players in the world at your spec simply so you can lay claim to not being the absolute worst member of the raid, then I don’t know what to tell you, but I don’t think most people would consider that “viable” DPS.
Did you raid Naxx?
The icy veins guide is for specs and situations that are not MC or BWL. Only 1 mage runs Winter’s Chill or Imp Scorch. Bosses are CC immune. Bosses until AQ and ZG are fire resistant so Fireblast isnt part of the rotation. Mages until ZG pretty much ONLY spam frost bolt.
Warlocks have 1 curse, maybe a DoT if there’s debuff slots, shadowbolt spam, and life tap to sustain.
no, this game recieving no new content after naxx ( or the phases coming in too slow) will hurt it’s longevity.
if you came into classic expecting a easy time with a meme spec… it’s on you.
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They have their utilities too. Just standing there doing those 2 things is just plain silly. Nobody does that.
The top parsing mages do. Sure, for some fights there’s additional responsibilities, but look at the logs.
That’s the point I’m making. People word things here wrong and paint the wrong pictures too often. I was just correcting.
Straight from Icy Veins:
- Use Fire Blast and Arcane Explosion to finish off enemies about to die.
- Maximize Winter’s Chill and Improved Scorch Icon stacks on the enemy.
- Use Frostbolt Icon if Frost-specced, Fireballotherwise.
Step 1 doesn’t apply in MC because fire. Arcane Explosion would only be a viable “finish off” move if you were in the last 2 seconds of the boss dying.
Step 2 requires no effort because Winter’s Chill is applied automatically.
Step 3 is spam Frostbolt, you can’t spam Fireball in MC because Fire.
/facepalm
Sure. You can go to one of the other groups filled with random people on the internet so they can tell you what to do because you’re not leading or organizing it.
Or you can make your own group.
you all can play whatever you want but this is an online game and players are not obligated to gimp their raid no matter how entitled you feel…
if I was forced to allow a ret, he’s absolute dead last to get any gear
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Good thing you’re only level 40 and your opinion doesnt matter much.
Also good thing that ret doesnt really share a lot of gear now days. Low prio on contested pieces, sure, but the ret Paladin BiS list isnt really contested by other classes much at all. We just eat the hybrid gear nobody cares about.
A couple more things here.
Your argument is that with a ton of work, effort, preparation, and skill, a Ret Pally can be something other than dead last. Are you really so blissfully unaware of how pathetic that bar you have set is?
Secondly, we are only talking about the very best Ret Pallys being able to stay out of dead last. The overwhelming majority of people wanting to play meme specs in raids will not be breaking that 180 DPS threshold that you set for viability. Even by your incredibly low standards, the overwhelming majority of people wanting to play these specs will not be viable.
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Kinda forgot sections 2.2 and 2.3
/facepalm
And some people will surely do that. But people did and are currently playing what they want because they’re having fun. What’s the point in playing something you don’t find fun?