Stop asking silly questions.
Yes, when the content was brand new, fresh, never-seen-before. Now that it’s 15 years old, who cares if you “beat it first?” Who cares if you “topped the charts?”
Most people will think “o…k…” give you a double thumbs up, roll their eyes and walk away.
That’s false. You need to bring the damage multipliers as well so you need at least one Druid for Faerie Fire, one of the Warriors needs to be hitting Sunder, you need a Warlock for Curse of Recklessness, etc.
But otherwise, sure, bring 33ish Warriors, things will in fact die the fastest they can and you’ll be out of there before anything can probably go wrong to stress the few Healers and Tanks in your raid.
The reason that’s now possible is because people had the foresight to pursue Warriors and Mages for raiding, rather than just making do with whatever they could recruit. Don’t expect anything differently moving forward.
You’re carrying bad players on meta specs that preform worse than good ret players. That’s all there is to it. In a vacuum, sure no reason to bring ret, but you need to consider intangibles like player skill and effort. No guild is going to have only top players. If you were in a guild of that level, or even qualified, you’d have been 60 for multiple weeks and stacked in many epics by this point.
For 99% of the playerbase, skill expression can create a wide enough gap that ‘memespecs’ can outperform a very large potion of the community. Sure, I should never win DPS against mages, but it happens. What do you make of that? They’re just bad mages? Well bad mages raid too. 40 man raiding rosters are a revolving door, and there will always be 5-15 undedicated players in the vast majority of guilds, that don’t show up regularly, don’t consume, don’t gear out of raid, and just want to get in and out. A dedicated ret beats all of them. Skill expression and dedication trump a lot of objective numbers in Classic.
I’m not saying ret’s better or equivelant to melee, just that looking purely at logs isn’t the best way to assess players. The spec in isolation is a trashcan compared to other specs, sure, but the player behind that spec might be sugnificantly better than a player on a meta spec, in which case I think it would be idiotic to bring the bad meta player over the skilled off meta player.
Basketball has been around FOREVER so seriously, why do you care if you can finally slam dunk? No one is going to congratulate you if you play better defense, and nothing is going to happen if you score more points. Seriously…
read this out loud in my best Shatner imitation.
Well, bless your heart for embracing the absurdity of that.
Have fun in Classic, I wish you the best.
Did you seriously compare professional sports to an MMO?
News Flash, your opposing basketball team does not perform the same moves each time you play them.
head desk
Doesn’t matter if it isn’t fresh anymore, that’s not my point. I am calling you out for blaming the retail players when in fact the grand vanilla community was just as elitist. Nothing has changed.
Again…please pay attention to this…the problem is that a Ret Pally played with maximum skill isn’t capable of outputting competitive DPS compared to an average Assassination Rogue. When the class is so poorly tuned that you are better off with an average rogue than an exceptionally skilled Ret Pally, then it is time to admit that the spec isn’t viable DPS.
It was as valuable as your half-baked story.
Did you think you were going to make me go “oh, that’s ridiculous, the game should not promote stacking like that!” and alter my POV?
Do you seriously think even NBA or college basketball players are varying their skill sets dramatically from game to game? HAHAHAHA
I was posting here during vanilla. It was not this cringeworthy.
75th percentile is not average. There is a bell curve in skill.
With that bell curve, there are bad players. A well played ret can beat your bottom 15 players, because 40 man raiding encourages a revolving door bottom end of the raid. Recruitment boss and finding qualified players is the biggest hurdle. You are going to have garbage mages, rogues, warriors, etc that just don’t pull numbers. They just don’t get it, and there’s no real way to teach them to be better. They don’t play enough of the game, it’s not central in their life, they just want to log into coms and hang out, being good at the game isnt even a though in their mind. In every Classic raiding guild I’ve joined in the last 4 years, there’s been a very, very weak bottom end that moderately skilled hybrid DPS players can just trounce over.
Doubt.
This and other posts I’ve read here today and lately have bothered me, in that I feel like my Class choice sucks… I played Enhance Shaman back in Vanilla, and rolled one here in Classic and am loving things again. While I’m only 33, I’m not racing to end-game, but enjoying the environment and all that I can do, leveling fishing, LW and skinning, and trying to farm a Tiny Crimson Whelpling again.
What bothers me is the min/max/meta stuff that seems to be taking hold of Classic, that seems to be dictating to me that the only way I’ll see end-game is if I respec Resto, which I really don’t want to do - I find healing boring, and would much rather play an OT/OH role, and that’s how I’m building my talent tree.
If Rag and Ony are so easy to take down, then Class spec shouldn’t really matter… not QQ, just saying I really want to play the toon that I rolled and not seem like I wasted days on it, while also being able to do end-game stuffs.
But this is exactly the point. A well played Ret is competing with the bottom DPSers in your raid.
A well played anything is better than a well played Ret and even just a competently played DPS of another class is superior to the most skilled Rets playing the game.
That. Isn’t. What. Viability. Looks. Like.
Please don’t let these min/max clowns ruin your fun or make you second guess. They’ll soon realize that nobody cares that they beat a raid 5 minutes faster than the group who picked a Warrior over an Enh. Shaman.
You will find a raid group with whatever spec you want.
Welcome to Vanilla, where all the hybrids were told to shut up and heal if they wanted to Raid.
It sucks to be sure that Shaman are so poorly tuned for DPS but there’s no putting that cat back in the bag. Some of the hybrids have a bit more use than just healbot, but the same theorycrafting that propped them up is also showing just how low Shaman actually are.
It is a reality of the class in Vanilla/Classic. Sorry.
Yeah, that’s what I expected! Disappointed again.
While I know there’s no moving your or any of the hardcore, NO MEME SPECS crowd, I’m posting just so your point of view isn’t the only opinion heard.
Building raid groups with consistent attendance is difficult, especially 40 mans. You need to have people who are having fun and want to do all of the work to be a successful raider.
Some of those people want to play elemental shaman and ret pallies. You can cast them aside for another warrior, and that’s fine if that’s what you want to do with your raid. But, for long term stability, I recommend a balanced raid group, and to actively recruit people who like their class.
Sure, you don’t want all Rets in a raid. But having a few, and not looking down your nose at those players, would go a distance to having a stable raid team. Everyone contributes. Some through helping other guildies, some through rocking damage, but all contribution count. Your raid team will be better if leadership embraces the idea of all members counting.
Here at off spec we have a very unique philosophy when it comes to raiding. Ever wanted to play a shadow priest? how about a balance druid? I know a lot of you wanted to play ret paladins! well my guild is for you! here at off spec our core raiding team will be composed of specs that were considered a meme back in 2004 many threads i have read on these forums about meme specs not being able to get into groups. this wot be a problem here at Off spec! we still need alot of people so all are welcome. we already have a guild tabard and are growing everyday no stress on when you “Have to get 60” were just looking to spice up some 15 year old pve content and have a blast in some premades!
Alliance EST faerlina PVP