LETS HOPE ITS BIG! BIG!
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Fingers crossed! The bottom of that blue post said they were working on bugs, like actual bugs. Can’t wait to see what they were able to get done next week.
Definately agree. However this functionality doesn’t work on beta when I checked 3 days ago. Fists of Fury still requires 1h weapons for some reason. Might be fixed with this weeks update, but I haven’t had time to check.
As of this morning I tested and you can now fof with a 2h and brewmaster with duel wielding.
ToD is still bugged and won’t kill the mob if they are a single level higher than you. Even if it activates and goes on cooldown it doesn’t kill. This can become an issue in raids with trash usually being 1-2 levels higher than the player.
SEF is still super bugged, I’ve gotten use to just double clicking it so at least I can single target pressure.
Will test more tonight.
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There’s no unification around class concepts. BrM is only holding on through a broken mechanic called Stagger.
WW needs a tiger statue, and a brew back, then there would be. Stagger isn’t broken at all, it’s been dumbed down so much since it was introduced it’s near impossible to mess up now, which in turn makes even mediocre BrMs seem really good in raid settings.
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Are the other classes looking less buggy than monk?? I wonder because the release is set for 10/27 and monk is looking very very broken. Maybe Blizzard has something up their sleeves IDK. I really would of appreciated if SL was delayed a tiny bit for the sake of polish.
Lets hope something BIG happens next Wed!
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In the grand scheme of things, this is not the biggest problem, but I do think the fact that the BM artifact skin appearance STILL bugs the animation of keg smash after all this time shows how little Blizz cares about monks.
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It’s not just Monks. I main Hunter and they have plenty of issues and bugs too. I imagine most classes are feeling sore right now.
Possibly Covid-quarantine is affecting the staff in a really bad way. Work-from-home isn’t an ideal development environment, and devs who are burning out won’t move on because of the job market being depressed.
Nice, appreciate the heads up. Wasnt able to test myself lately – been super busy with work.
If this is the megathread we’re using for Monk feedback I’ll leave my take here as well. Like other comments have pointed out it looks like we were butchered in our Legion rework to accomodate Havoc Demon Hunters.
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Combo Strikes and Hit Combo are the biggest reason Windwalker is in it’s horrible state. It doesn’t add depth, it’s counter-intuitive; and limits the design space. Not being able to repeat abilities feels sluggish, and only worsened by the fact that if an ability is dodged or repeated you break your streak. This is also the reason Whirling Dragon Punch feels like it should be baseline to those that enjoy this.
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Turning a previously high skill cap ability like SEF into our main damage cooldown. I don’t need to tell other monk players how bugged this ability became with the rework in Legion. Previously I never had any issues with SEF in MoP/WoD, it was an amazing utility skill in PvP and nice for big AoE in PvE.
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Tigereye Brew and Bottled Fury need to come back. Tigereye Brew becomes our main damage cooldown again and Bottled Fury (Our original mastery) replaces Combo Strikes. Tigereye shares the trait of “thinking ahead” like Combo Strikes but it’s actually rewarding when you play it effectively. This would return Windwalker to it’s fast paced gameplay and be way more engaging than our current state.
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I originally wanted Jab and Tiger Palm to come back in their original forms, but as pointed out to me on my own post Tiger Palm coming back is more like an extra button to push that probably doesn’t add anything. Jab replacing Tiger Palm means we finally swing our weapon again and it’s honestly ridiculous to even have weapons showing on a monk since you never swing your weapon. We’re weapon experts and martial artists, and I’d like to have a reminder of the former. This is pretty much just a aesthetic change.
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Monks need to get their Fists of Fury stun back, Nimble Brew, and possibly Energizing Brew. All Baseline. Expel Harm and the original ToD being baseline is also great.
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Without going too deep into it we need a talent rework. Chi Explosion was an extremely powerful talent that gave us an alternative playstyle. It was one of our most adaptive talents as well. This gave us a real source of ranged damage to bypass things like Hand of Protection from Paladin’s, Rogue Evasion’s, etc.
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Chi Torpedo from WoD needs to come back, Blizzard took this away from us and I’m almost certain it was to given to Demon Hunters in the form of Fel Rush. This talent wasn’t for everybody but was extremely powerful if you knew how to do the jump technique properly without messing up. (This replaces Hit Combo in the 6th tier)
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The return of Chi Brew and Power Strikes. This would be on the same tier as Ascension; pretty self explanatory.
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Tiger Tail Sweep needs an additional functionality of reducing the cooldown if two or more enemies are hit, maybe like an extra 15 seconds or so.
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Good Karma moved to being a PvP Talent, why is it even in Tier 5?
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Ring of Peace is clearly too strong, needs a nerf but I don’t want it to be a dead talent.
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Healing Elixir replaces Good Karma. This gives monks sustain healing in PvP and PvE. Dampen Harm needs a flat % reduction against melee or swap it with Inner Strength. Dampen Harm has always been a relatively low use talent so I don’t see why we should keep it as is.
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Rushing Jade Wind needs a huge buff. Blizzard has constantly nerfed this talent and now it’s another dead talent that’s never used and that’s a shame. There are multiple ways they could fix RJW but apparently have refused to do so.
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Dance of Chi’ji can stay as a passive for people who don’t want to manage another ability.
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Fist of the White Tiger and Whirling Dragon Punch are combined to become Strike of the Windlord in our final tier. I know this is probably an unpopular opinion but WDP is pretty boring and Strike is literally just a straight upgrade. As mentioned before without Combo Strikes WDP no longer feels baseline anyway.
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Serenity would be much more powerful with Tigereye being our main damage cooldown, making a dead talent a great one because of it’s massive burst potential.
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I love this post. Well thought out. Personally I wouldn’t mind having tigerseye brew back as our main damage Cooldown, but I was never a fan of having it as our mastery. It felt strange to have a brew as our mastery for ww, since we have an entire spec designed around brews. I would adore the stun to return to fists of fury, but between that and leg sweep, we would probably have to get power taken from elsewhere.
Also I have always loved wdp, as it felt very fluid in the monks toolkit, but I also admit, strike was excellent. I understand it would be too strong to have them both, but replacing wdp with strike feels like changing something that is already enjoyable, even if it is to something that is also enjoyable.
On the opposite side, I would rather them remove rushing jade wind than attempt to make it competitive. It feels like a maintainance ability, which doesen’t mesh well with how wind walker typically flows. Though I have the same issue with slice and dice on rogues, which is also returning. Maybe more people enjoy these types of abilities than I give them credit for?
And of course I have to advocate for goblin and worgen monks with the addition of exiles reach. It may not be a balance change, but there is more lacking than just balance as we move into shadowlands. Opening up the class is precisely a move done for player choice, which is supposed to be a big deciding factor for many changes and additions for SL.
Man I hope blizz is hovering these threads. So many people have excellent advice and opinions.
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I don’t understand why you think changing the mastery would make the spec less sluggish. All you would gain is the occasional extra Blackout Kick where you have more chi than you need for your upcoming RSK or FoF. I don’t think this makes much difference unless Blizzard continues the route of throwing more randomly refunded resources at us. Additionally, breaking your streak is only an issue with Hit Combo which is a garbage talent that should be removed because it adds nothing other than the ability to punish mistakes.
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I’m not really a fan of SEF in general, especially the current version. I would like to see them just delete it and replace it with Tigereye Brew. If they want to revert SEF and give us Tigereye Brew, I’d be fine with that as well.
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I don’t mind too much either way between Tiger Palm and Jab, but it would be nice to use weapons sometimes.
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I don’t think FoF stun coming back would be a good idea. It’s really strong, but it would probably come at the cost of FoF cd reduction. I think that would be a net negative because we would lose some fluidity in the spec. Maybe add all or parts of Turbo Fists baseline? Nimble Brew would be nice, but I doubt they’d give us that and Fortifying Brew baseline.
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Chi Explosion seems good in theory, but when I asked people about it they said you pretty much only used it at max chi. It didn’t really have the flexibility that it appeared to have. Maybe it could be improved.
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I don’t really like going back to this. It was kind of a fun trick when it existed, but it seems bad in the same way that ToK seems bad. Why should we use a defensive cd for dps and movement abilities for dps? From a pvp perspective, you also can’t use your movement if you’re near someone who’s cc’d because you’ll break it. It just doesn’t seem worth bringing back.
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In lieu of FoF stun, it’d be nice to have a lower cd on Leg Sweep or the potential to lower it like you suggest.
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In my opinion, they should make Good Karma baseline and remove the damage component. They could make that a pvp talent. This would make ToK an actual defensive tool, remove the degenerate gameplay Blizzard says they don’t want, and leaves the offensive capability there for pvp.
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I would like the return of Healing Elixirs. Vivify is decent, but it’s not going to save your life in the thick of things.
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Combo Strikes and Hit Combo are one in the same imo. Imagine playing a different class with the “repeating abilities lowers your dps” mechanic, like rogue or Ret Paladin. It forces you to play the class in a certain way and that takes away from decision making which is the opposite of it’s intended purpose. Maybe some people enjoy this playstyle but I certainly don’t. Also we didn’t have a bunch of “free” chi to spend back then outside of Power Strikes, Chi Brew and Chi Sphere’s.
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I don’t want to see SEF go because people didn’t enjoy using it. It was a core part of the class in MoP and WoD and attributed to a huge part of the skill cap back then. There were a plethora of uses it had. Arguably the biggest utility tool in the game.
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It wouldn’t kill me if Tiger Palm stays over Jab…but it does bother me a lot that our weapon just sits there.
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The idea behind the FoF stun is because of Leg Sweep’s cooldown being 1 minute and the stun only lasting 3 seconds. Havoc Demon Hunter basically has the OG Monk lockdown combo with Chaos Nova and Fel Eruption. (in PvP) You’re correct about Nimble Brew though. Blizzard likely wouldn’t give it back, and that’s understandable but admittedly a bit upsetting. This would mean that some power would need to be adjusted. I know moving while using FoF is popular but if the trade off was being forced to channel again while standing still I would be all for it. But that’s up for discussion.
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Chi Explosion was not used only at 4 stacks, whoever told you this was using it wrong. I’m not saying Level 4 wasn’t strong though; as it made Chi Explosion an AOE. It all depended on what your next move was. This is of course, mostly pertaining to PvP though. And if this replaces a worthless talent like Spritual Focus, its a win-win for everybody.
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Touch of Karma’s damage return mechanic was never an issue for me. I think it’s great. It rewards the player if they’re good enough and don’t need the defensive to be more aggressive or deal more dps in boss fights. If anything the issue is too many monks overestimating how much damage it absorbs and getting themselves killed. With Chi Torpedo it’s decision making. In PvP I used it a lot and in PvE I always used it. Monks are extremely mobile and it’s up to the players judgement to use the skills available correctly without gimping themselves. It’s a perfect replacement for Hit Combo.
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Agreed. As stated in the post before Tier 4 needs changes.
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As stated earlier I don’t agree with removing the damage mechanic, however making Good Karma baseline fixes the issue as well, I suggested moving it to PvP talents since blizzard is lazy.
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Agreed
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I think MW is in need of a much larger overhaul than Blizzard are going to drop on us next week.
It looks like many are assuming Shadow/Disc levels of changes where Blizzard specifically look at what works and what doesn’t and what the spec needs to be competitive and then makes changes accordingly.
Unfortunately, I’m almost certain we are going to see a few minor numbers tweaks, and a few minor mechanical changes. That’s it.
Feedback
- MW raid healing needs to be more than 3 buttons. ReM/EF/Vivify aren’t fundamentally enough to be interesting or rewarding gameplay, regardless of numbers.
- The spec is too clunky and rigid to be strong in M+. The major issue I have here is that all meaningful throughput requires hardcasting and turret healing. Preemptively healing with Enveloping is too costly on mana to preemptively heal someone just because they might die when you have to move for a mechanic.
- The removal of procs has made the second to second gameplay exceedingly boring. Priests have Surge of Light, Paladins have Infusion/Divine, Druids have clearcasting/photo and MW has… nothing. Nothing that happens global to global as a MW changes what you’re going to press next.
- Mana. MW spends too much mana on maintenance healing. No other healer in M+ can go OOM doing 20k HPS.
- Too many temporary buffs are required to really push the HPS and compete with other healers. Enveloping on the tank, EF on the group, ReM’s out and then you can finally press Vivify a few times to move healthbars before you need to ReM again or refresh Enveloping or pray a ReM bounces to that one guy that’s not being healed through all that.
The best change I can think of for M+ that doesn’t require MW to be overhauled back to Chi/Uplift is to make the EF buff last until consumed on targets. Maybe a talent that removes the healing from EF but makes the Gusts proc buff stack and last until consumed. Perhaps increase the CD or reduce the channel time to balance it.
It would make Mastery relevant again, allow MW to prepare for incoming damage, allow us to heal non-trivial amounts while moving with ReM charges and make our main Vivify target selection more important.
I’d honestly just bake Upwelling into MW baseline to allow for more mana conservative gameplay and then throw a talent in its place that removes the upfront healing but makes the HoT stack and last until consumed.
Then MW in raid could choose between a spot healing, high mastery, quick reaction time healer or a sustained AoE throughput with limited/costly spot healing playstyle.
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I wish for this so much 
Hard Life
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- Change Eye of the Tiger to make tiger palm to cost less energy maybe 10-20 less (idk honestly figured something new would spice things up
) - Spice up Energizing Elixir or just replace it with something new ( )
- Make Hit Combo a base line passive (i think it would synergize with the mastery better if it is a passive to WW monks only and bring a very fair reward structure to the spec
) - Bring back old Tigers eye Brew as a talent but instead of 6% increase in damage lower it to 3% or 4% off GcD ( please
) - Rework Alpha Tiger into a regular talent maybe replacing Energizing Elixir remove the 30 second DR and maybe reduce the 30% haste increase to 20% ( i like this idea alot and think it would make the level 30 row really competitive
) - Make Storm Earth Fire a talent, reduce its charges to 1 and on the same row with Dance of Chi Ji (Not bashing any other possible ideas but i don’t get a good feeling from having the Ww monk become a pseudo pet spec through all of the summons Xuen , SeF , Fallen order
) - Rework Rushing jade wind ’s scaling ( It needs some help
) - Replace Spiritual Focus with Transfer the Power (from legion) (I think having this as a talent choice would bring synergy to the entire kit of Ww if Hit Combo were to be placed as a base line passive)
- Make Whirling Dragon Punch a base line ability Also maybe add that after doing this ability you get increased dodge/evasion for a few seconds like 8 to be fair because it’s a pretty big commit honestly for a mobile spec (It would bring more of a wind feeling
move to the spec giving it more of a wind identity while also bringing more synergy to Ww’s kit ) - Change Wind Walking to increase evasion/dodge chance by 10% instead of 10% movement speed ( Monks are Pretty squishy in general and for Ww or Mw you really get to feel how squishy they are. It also gives more wind feeling stuff for a Wind Walker identity )
Thank you for your time 
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Not good for brew mains
Honestly, a plus for brew alt specs
I don’t understand is how uplift was considered worse in any aspect mechanically or just flat out from an enjoyment perspective when compared to Essence Font…
Every expansion I realize that I’m never going to have Blackrock / Hellfire Citadel Monk back… And it’s just depressing to think about.
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Hee Essence font go Brr
Jokes aside, I really don’t see how uplift wasn’t much better gameplay than press ef on damage then attempt do do something between ef channels outside of rjw, because everything else is so weak in comparison
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