After hitting 2.5K M+ rating today

i’m not saying that. i’m saying that struggling to hit 2500 on a brewmaster is not incontrovertible evidence of a tuning issue.


Brew is better than bdk though

The only problem with Brewmaster is they have too many active abilities. Rising Sun Kick and either Bonedust Brew or Weapons of Order should be cut or replaced with passive abilities.

Prot Paladins make most of the other tanks seem weak because they’re in god tier while the rest are just mortal. It’s funny to check out overall healing at the end of a Prot Paladin key. They’re the easiest to heal and also do the least amount of self healing.

To me it’s:
“Why is it bad?”
“Are there any specific pain points in the content?”
“Do you have logs?”
“What kind of interactions with the spec are particularly lacking?”
“What are your suggestions for improving the spec?”

“Pally OP (their words not mind), me want better monk.” isn’t helpful in any way. To monks or to paladins.

Not only numbers.


I’m all for monk buffs, but Windwalker is in one of the top M+ groups in the world right now. Brewmaster isn’t as good as Paladin, but I mean, no tank is.

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It’s got more problems than that, but that’s a big part. I have 39 ability keybinds for Mythic Raz, and that’s with a bunch of overlap included (like macroing my warlock gateway stone into my interrupt so it cuts it down to just 1 key instead of 2).

The design is also overcomplicated and all over the place. For example, we have 2 “filler” abilities (Tiger Palm and Spinning Crane Kick) but you can’t just swap them out one for another as needed during rotation. Because Charred Passions (if you take it) applies to Spinning Crane Kick but not Tiger Palm, and Blackout Combo works on Tiger Palm (in a bad way) but not Spinning Crane Kick. Counterstrike affects both equally, but you have to take Face Palm (appropriately named, because it’s a garbage talent) to get it, which only affects Tiger Palm. And Tiger Palm also has Eye of the Tiger, but Spinning Crane Kick doesn’t, but nobody takes Eye of the Tiger, anyway. And on and on and on.

It’s a rat’s maze of conflicting talent and ability design. And that’s JUST talking about our filler moves.

Why did they add Rising Sun Kick to Brewmaster? /shrug
Why are the end-cap statues so bad? /shrug
(They said they’d find something to do with Tiger statue after they nerfed it 75% in beta, but then OOPS WE RAN OUT OF TIME AGAIN happened.)

Bonedust Brew was always weird to use, even in Shadowlands, because it generates no threat when used. So you can’t pull with it. It’s even tricky to use at the start of a pull unless your DPS know what’s up and that they have to hold back. Big part of the reason why so many Brewmasters were Kyrian.

Even a health/stam buff would help out Brewmaster a lot. But Prot Warriors start crying real tears if you even suggest it.


Population = Numbers.
At a certain point those numbers skew perception in the community. The nerfs to Prot weren’t because of a rando GD post.

I get it. You think Prot Pally is some kind of secret to keep from Blizz and the OP has ruined that and now they’ll be nerfed. That ain’t how this works.

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Whoosh. Let me help.

Not a number.

No, I am protecting against this.


Perception created by the numbers. How about you quote the rest of the Blue post?

If all players see are Prot Warriors they start rolling Prot over other specs and it snowballs from there.

Blizz doesn’t need you to protect against anything. They will or won’t nerf things based on their own data.

The playstyle for Prot is set. They were lucky to get a full rework in the middle of the expansion which never happens so none of that will change. It will be numbers tuning so if you really just care about the gameplay there’s no reason to worry but we all know that’s not what you this is about.

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Needed to help you zero in on the issue. They had already recently nerfed prot warrior. It was still dominating numbers. Did they expect everyone to reroll? It was still strong, why swap? So what happens? People perceive it to be too strong still, and you get a nerf based off what people think and not what is reality.

Great, balance doesn’t go hand in hand with perception, or rather it shouldn’t. idc what people play, balance it and play what you want. If everyone likes a spec, maybe make the others more fun? How bout that?

And player perception, which isn’t in alignment with reality.

If actual numbers support it and not a sensationalist mob’s perception of it, sure. You can boil the number of people’s perception to a number, but you’re just creating data to lie.

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They simultaneously nerfed every other tank twice as much as they nerfed Prot Warrior.

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The global nerf? Yeah and that was still stupid, but just my opinion. Another thing born out of players crying tanks being too strong. I’ve never seen more tanks randomly fall over dead in recent history. Thanks people.

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You need to get over this perception thing. Community perception comes out of numbers and that’s all anyone cares about. Do you hear anyone talking about any Mage spec right now? I didn’t think so.

Survival was low on the charts at the start of Shadowlands and thus the perception was they were bad. Then they got an OP set Bonus and some Buffs and they were topping the charts and the perception was they were great.

LOL bro if you didn’t feel deep down that Prot Pally was busted you wouldn’t be here sweating a random thread on GD.

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Congratulations on 2.5k, welcome to the club. However, you have to keep in mind you’re playing at the very end of the season where the players are typically playing the dungeons better, the content has been nerfed several times, and to top it off the absolutely broken Onyx Annulet is in the game and most classes are using it.

You also have very limited tank experience. You only played Prot at a 1.5k IO level and your best key is a 16 Algethar Academy. If you were having trouble tanking with your BRM in the ranges of keys you’ve been doing, you probably just were not playing it very well


Yeah. They are head and shoulders above everyone else.

Then BDK, Monk Mae up the aristocracy.

Veng DH holding down the merchant class.

Guardians are straight up peasants. Begging for buffs since shadowlands beta and our one update in Tuesday is:


Monks are gods of taking really big hits, but lots of little ones make them cry. I wouldn’t call them garbage though with the state bears are in. I’m still managing with my monk but my friend just straight quit playing his bear.

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k nerf it, enjoy trying to find tanks all season.

Tanks were paper in 9.0 and you could never find one and the kite meta was just so so fun. I look forward to it, cause shadowlands was such a smashing hit.

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I was deciding back in SL who I was going to play this expansion, couldn’t decide on paladin or monk, but ultimately went with monk. At the time those two were my least played classes.

After getting KSM and AOTC on my monk and trying mythic raiding I seen the writing on the wall, before ret paladin was announced to even having a rework, I was basing my decision on what I info I had before me on paladins before any changes were announced.

I was saying before I decided to swap to paladin that monks needed help, but knowing Blizzard historically they don’t do anything major with any class mid season, but I was wrong this time, they changed paladin in my favour, however they didn’t really change prot all that much it was more a ret rework than anything.

I was one of the few who changed before the rework and done so planning to tank, not just because ret was OP, and didn’t even get into high end content until after the nerfs took place.

And STILl I am asking for monks to be given some help. As much as people want to say "Oh yeh you are bad at monk, I got 3K on my monk, it doesn’t mean monk still isn’t bad in comparison, only 3.1% of the top 1000 rated tanks are monks, if monks were good, that number would be much higher.

Stats don’t lie, at M15 and up BRM are the least played tank, by a fair margin. Only when you hit M20 and up do you see guardian being played less.2

Even so, if you want to look at the numbers you will see overall across every spec and class only frost DK, arcane and assass are featured less than WW. When you look at just DPS only dragons and DK are featured less.

And this is a flow on effect from early when WW was strong, there were far more WW than there is now, back before players were trying to min/max and find that little bit extra.

Just because there is a small percentage of players who can do something in a premade group, in the right week, in the right dungeons, it does not take away the fact that some specs and classes are far, far stronger than others or that the weaker ones don’t need help.

Not according to those 3K IO BRM players, according to them it’s a skill issue. Maybe they should take their head out of the sand and take note of just how much better some other classes and specs are.

After hitting 2.5k M+ rating 4 months ago, I can say that the monk in my guild is better than all of us.

Yeah they need to buff tanks, some more than others, and then revert the stupid nerfs they made across the board to all tanks. These dudes are out here dying way too often now, and it’s only going to get worse with their 25% change. Tanks can be immortal for all I care, and I wouldn’t say a single one of them is OP for the content right now.