Even ignoring the peace treaties the wars were proceeded with 1) the Wrathgate and Sylvanas involvement with it/the Alliance learning about the horrible experiments she was doing 2) the 4th war was due to the Horde leaving the Alliance for dead. And the act of aggression you are talking about was in relation to Sylvanas making deals with devils.
I am sensing a pattern here.
Both events were the Alliance blaming the Horde for tragedies that the Horde was not responsible for, and cost the Horde immensely as well. It wasnât just one side losses for the Alliance.
The Horde was NOT behind the Wrath Gate, no matter how much suspicion they might have had of Sylvanas herself. It cost the lives of 4000 Horde Troops, and Saurfangâs son, alongside Bolvar and his 5000 Alliance. But, King Chin declared War and ceased trade in response to that event ⊠then Blizz got cold feet and wheeled that crap back as fast as they could. Meaning the Horde had to âStart the Warâ, but for no real allowed reason.
As for the Broken Shore. The Alliance was given just as much time to retreat as the Horde had. The Hordeâs lines broke. The Warchief died. Both realities that were made public even before Gennâs attack in Stormheim; with Alliance members secretely in attendance to Jinâs funeral. And Sylvieâs sounding the retreat was given to BOTH the Horde and Alliance at the same time. Varian was the one who overextended.
But ⊠both of these events somehow justify repeated instances of Alliance aggression, and even retconned declarations of War, so the Horde being blamed for something that is not really their fault (and cost them immensely as well) can âStart the War against the All that is Good and Pure Alliance for no valid reasons. Let alone no means to actually do soâ. Good Race/Evil Race writing at its finest.
The Horde is not inherently evil and hasnât been since WC3. The Hordeâs entire narrative since then has been about recognizing the mistakes of the past and growing because of that.
Debates with Zerde are absolutely pointless because he takes Alliance propoganda and misinformation as absolute fact. He never considers the rest of the lore that contradicts the Alliance PoV.
Problem is the Horde has done more regressing than progressing. They arguably have been more evil during WoW then they have been in WC2.
Like compare Ogrim Doomhammer as Warcheif to Sylvanas or Garrosh aaaaand⊠Arguably he was more honorable than they were.
WC3: âThe Horde is a group of flawed individuals who are just as capable of heroics as anyone. They have a dark past, but they are capable of redemption and deserve the chance to be better.â
WoW: âMaybe that racist genocidal old man was right after all.â
Both acts were partially the Hordeâs responsibility.
We know the full story and technically it was Sylvanas who gave the order. Yes, Putress and co ultimately betrayed her but Sylvanas did not care about collateral damage either. If the Plague had killed Arthas and she wasnt betrayed she would not have minded how many Alliance/Horde died.
Except this isnt canon. We even had Anduin asking in Before the Storm whether or not Sylvanas deliberately let Varian die.
Except WoW has several times said that Daelin was wrong.
Except, they didnt. WoW still had Thrall either approve or turn a blind eye to the Horde attacking Ashenvale. He didnt care the Horde was attacking Stromgarde. He let the Forsaken get away with human/sentient experimentation.
Except for the several expansions that proved him absolutely right. So, yaâknow. That.
Oh Zerde my sweet summer childâŠ
Zerde when anyone suggests the alliance be held responsible for their actions, just once
Again, hold the Alliance accountable if we get to do the same to the Horde. But as I keep reminding you, the Hordeâs list of crimes is longer.
Speaking as someone who has RPed a character with very strong racial and gender bias believing there would be growth over the long-term, my character becoming more open to the wider world⊠Only for Blizzardâs writing to constantly vindicate her Xenophobia and push her to being a full blown Alliance Separatist and isolationist like the days of the Long VigilâŠ
⊠That is probably a big reason why I donât find a lot of satisfaction on Nelf RP anymore, despite them being my favorite race. RPing a Nelf who is excited and curious about the world outside of their forests just feels tone deaf.
Who needs character growth? Not nelves, just keep proving them right on why they really shouldnât like all these other races lol. But yeah pretty sad to hear that thereâs been no fulfilling growth to be found on your character.
Yes, and at no point were the themes of the BfA cinematics undermined and stripped of any real substance by the themes of the in-game BfA narrative. Or you know, they were almost constantly.
Donât get me wrong, I love the character, but not for the reason I thought I would. She is like a really good villain in a movie, giving their really cool villain monologue and as you are listening to it you are like âDamn, they have a pointâ and you are almost rooting for them.
I also really like using Blizzâs trash story telling to pick apart the lore and have a Nelf perspective on an culturally oppressive and imperialistic Alliance.
But it is also like⊠That is how I found enjoyment in the story, not the enjoyment that anyone intended. And you can only do that for so long before you are sitting in Ashenvale by yourself with an angry look on your face. Unwilling to go anywhere or talk to anyone.
And THEN Blizz attacked Ashenvale, Darkshore and burns down Teldrassil and I am just like â⊠You mean I gotta sit and be angry by myself somewhere else now?â
âI got to sit and be angry somewhere else now?!?â Since blizzard may or may not put yâallâs new tree in the dragon isles, but yeah I get your point. Honestly a character can go a myriad of ways, but it seems Blizzard writing likes to make it hard for some character to be bright eyed about the world instead of a hopeless cynic.
Iâm actually bit worried for him and players like him that donât get a mental breakdown⊠for whatâs coming after or during DF⊠nothing is set in stone but here are my clue:
) and some of their leaders ask THE HORDE the outcast to help them out as the Alliance crumbles from within?!IN other words, it might not be nothing but it could most likely BE something is coming and not in a way Zerde or players like him would like.
âTHE HOUR OF TWILIGHT IS COMING FOR THE ALLIANCE!â (lol Iâm joking but you get the idea of what Iâm trying to say)
Take it with a grain of salt, as neither of this things have been confirm, its just talks with friends and players in WoW of âbothâ factions⊠and even if I had a source to confirm, I never reveled it! Best ideas come when you let people speculate on story! lol
If they do the cross guild stuff soon, I think that puts a knife in the faction war for good.
Which is fine, I think the only real setup that would make sense right now is the hypothetical âAU Draenei invade and team up with Alliance warhawks to do bad things while Anduinâs not aroundâ expansion, which even hardcore Alliance fans donât seem to want.
We have seen how great this went with the killing off of one player race, yes.