most good/high rated healers don’t argue that CC should be reduced, they argue that specific CC or specs should be looked at
do you know why? because good healers utilize CC to their advantage just as much as dps do
2v2 is full of restro druids playing feral talents to bash/rake/maim/clone/skull bash
paladins can blind/repent and hoj and even take the “attacks will miss” PvP talent against full melee teams
monks para into leg sweep into song of chi
priests fear into MC and can stun if holy
evokers can knock and can cast sleep while moving and stun that does damage
shamans can hex/root/lasso/cap
these suggestions hurt the good healers that actually enjoy playing the game. if you want to heal a dungeon or raid, you’re free to do that
i’m saying that unless blizzard completely redesigns how the game works/plays then the proposed CC changes or any further reduction to CC would be harmful to the game and i’ve already outlined why
you can’t just slap a massive change on to the game and think it would work but who am i kidding, none of you consider anything outside of the extremely tight tunnel you view things through
100% so practice your positioning and utilizing your kit to avoid CC, since every healer has multiple ways to do that, rather than wanting CC to be reduced so you can PvE heal
i gotta be honest, i see you replying, but i’ve been debating legit morons all morning and you are by far the most clueless and the most smug, so whatever essay you’re about to type is going to be ignored lol
Mw cc chains for 15 seconds and team still won’t die……imagine how they would die without cc chains….probably never
Also I already mentioned Druid cc was OP….cyclone is literally more powerful than before the cc nerf
Removing cc chains literally makes certain comps unplayable. Just bad for the game overall.
Short 8 second cc chains are almost never long enough to land kills(especially vs a mw thats has hots and can revival while stunned hahaha)
That’s another thing you don’t think about is a lot of healers are having impact while ccd. Rsham has totems and earth shield pumping heals while they are ccd
Discs have atonements and renews and can painsupp while stunned… rdruid has hots for days….mw has big hots and can revival and port while stunned
Hpriest has perma mastery hot + renew all the time and can guardian angel while stunned
You don’t fully grasp the consequences of the changes you are suggesting
Also some cc chains have no impact at all if the dps press their defensives and kite away…
most good/high rated healers don’t argue that CC should be reduced, they argue that specific CC or specs should be looked at
do you know why? because good healers utilize CC to their advantage just as much as dps do
… fluff …
these suggestions hurt the good healers that actually enjoy playing the game. if you want to heal a dungeon or raid, you’re free to do that
Again, how will you support the claim that “most” healers agree that CC is fine? I do want to clarify, that I did not say that we should get rid of all CC. You do understand this, yes? “Good healers” will still have CC they can use to their advantage. My suggestion of doing something about CC chains would unlikely “hurt the good healers that actually enjoy playing the game.” Perhaps some would dislike it, but oh well? If it gets more healers playing that is what would be best for the overall health of the game. At this point, this may be something that we just aren’t going to agree on.
i’m saying that unless blizzard completely redesigns how the game works/plays then the proposed CC changes or any further reduction to CC would be harmful to the game and i’ve already outlined why
you can’t just slap a massive change on to the game and think it would work but who am i kidding, none of you consider anything outside of the extremely tight tunnel you view things through
They don’t need to completely redesign it, but they do need to change things to make further adjustments to CC / CC chains work. I think that is what people are advocating for, though? I don’t advocate for a sudden further reduction in CC without any other changes. That would be crazy. I don’t recall saying that this is what I wanted, though? My goal is to make healing more fun in small scale (and large scale) PvP. I believe (as do many others) that looking at CC chains is a way to do that. If that requires a massive adjustment on blizzards part, so be it. However, it should be incorporated in a way that it doesn’t make it worse for everyone. This, in my opinion, would be best for the overall health of the game.
Lol, okay? I agree, you can get better at avoiding it. See the video I posted. Even the best healers can’t completely avoid it. Even if you improve, IT STILL ISN’T FUN!! Lol.
No. Why would I do that? I believe CC is important, but CC chains are unfun and should be adjust.
I mean, the DPS did have a couple hots on them, but primarily they utilized their defensives.
I am not advocating for complete removal of CC chains. The back-to-back-to-back CC is unfun. Just spit balling - make DRs longer? Idk. I am not paid to come up with these ideas. CC chains, as a healer, are UNFUN. Doing something about that doesn’t mean that all CC has to be removed or that no CC chain can be allowed.
I love that everyone assumes that changes like these have to be made in a vacuum. As if NOTHING ELSE can be changed at the same time. I think CC chains should be addressed, as stated above. I didn’t say we need to completely remove CC or even completely remove CC chains (as stated above). I imaging that if CC chains were addressed then healers wouldn’t need those abilities they can use while CC’d, no?
Making it more fun for healers and encouraging more healers to queue would do something about the long queue times. The more healers queue up, the lower the queue time will be for DPS. Isn’t that basic math? It may not be instant, but perhaps < 5 mins? Maybe more, idk. Depends on how much more enjoyable healing becomes with changes.
It may reduce times, but it will never eliminate them entirely. I’m tired of seeing the same point of “well you don’t want to put in my wacky and radical solution that hardly considers the way the game is played? Well I guess you’re just stuck with the queue times lol” as if said wacky solution would magically make queues instant.
I know I bring up TF2 a lot in my analogies but look at a casual game of TF2: There are twelve people on one team. It only takes one to switch to Medic and single-handedly win the game, assuming the other team has no Medic.
And people still don’t play Medic. You know why? Because people don’t wanna play doctor, they want SICK FRAGS!
All you can do is try and keep the current healers around, and no kind of wacky paper-in-a-hat solution is going to save solo shuffle, purely because the uncoordinated monkey-brain nature of solo shuffle is an awful environment to play a healer in.
the suggestions in this thread make the game less fun for everyone else besides maybe melee who would love to see less CC so they could vomit all over their keyboards and do M+ levels of dps unabated
Goodness. That last paragraph makes me sad for you. Very much a defeatist attitude. I think it can be improved!
What you quoted from me, the “enjoy long queue times,” would be addressed if healing was more fun. You’re right, it’s highly unlikely that there will be instant DPS queues in RSS due to the difference in required healer/dps ratio. However, I think that if the queue times for RSS were shorter for DPS, most people would find that to be a good thing.
You would have to change the entire dynamic of how every single class is played not just healers if blizzard listened to your suggestion.
Maybe im just misinterpreting the main idea. So why dont you explain it for me so I can better understand!
lets say im an rsham and most of my healing is from earthern stream and tide…what would you do about rsham? Almost the entire rsham kit can heal while ccd(earthern absorbs ,stream ,earthseild hot ,earthliving hot, riptide hot, healing tide totem…) What changes would blizzard need to make to rshams usuable while ccd buttons to balance out the game?
What about rdruid? their hots are always ticking until expired or purged whether they are ccd or not.
Explain to me what changes need to be made to these classes so I can better understand your viewpoint.
I appreciate somebody else admitting this (melee zugging) is the result of less CC, especially hardcasted.
To clarify, I am perfectly fine with the Boomkin nerfs. What I was trying to suggest earlier is that less CC means you need more precise execution to line up and secure rounds.
As a healer, I disagree. Encouraging more healers through hearing our feedback and maybe specific role-rewards will not only make the current healers happy and wanting to play more, but also more dps trying the specialization.
Now, neither of us can prove our point, so there’s no point in arguing, I am just giving you my view, as a healer.
which is what i’ve said, not you, but to be clear, you haven’t provided any additional ideas as to what to change in order for these CC changes to be even considered
the entirety of this thread has been you and the OP- even though you are much worse of a poster than OP- saying “reduce CC so healers will have more fun” with NOTHING else attached
my whole argument has been predicated around the fact that JUST doing that would make the game WORSE in the current state and would require a DRASTIC shift in design philosophy which likely ISN’T going to happen
A big issue here in this thread that I am seeing is that the ppl opposed to seeing any change are coming from the perspective of the absolute extreme. My post isn’t about being extreme but rather finding a middle path.
Arguing from the extreme position means you didn’t read the OP
Give healers those old dungeon bags that can have rare mounts for winning rated PvP matches, watch everyone start farming arena/SS 24/7 on their healers.
This is the way.
(MMR deflation, CC and class balance aside; participation is the #1 issue that concerns me as the season goes on)
we gotta combat the long queues
Stacking multiple 5 sec CC’s into 10 to 15-sec CC chains should not exist in pvp with the dmg being so high. From a healing perspective, this is extreme
^This is what youre arguing for, allowing this to continue.
