About the LGBT thread

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

Literally don’t know who you said this to, and don’t care, because I’ve seen pretty much all I need to.

You should! Reading comprehension is an important life skill.

Despite being what the vast majority of people on this thread and the last one keep saying in response. Just having LGBT characters exist equals having them being showed down their throat, like it’s a personal insult.
“Shoved down my throat” Is the key sentence here, which I see being used very, very often.

I’ve seen it too, and that rhetoric can make some people hostile. Still, if you can get past that stuff and pay close attention to their actual argument, you’ll see that’s it’s not necessarily about homosexuality and whatnot.

They don’t like politics being used as a selling point, so the company can ship bad products, and then use their politics as a shield against those who complain about the bad products. Corporations have figured out that if they can attach something negative to those who criticize their products, they can discredit all criticism. “We LOVE x people, buy our stuff! They criticize our work, so they must HATE x people!”

Ghostbusters, Charlie’s Angles, Star Trek, Star Wars, EA, and Blizzard have done this.

Honest question: Why can’t a character in a LGBT relationship have interesting arcs? Why assume they’ll be “walking -talking sexual preference stand ins”?

They ABSOLUTELY can make it interesting! But people (for reasons outlined above) don’t trust game companies to do so.

If Blizzard simply put that quest in the game, no one would seriously care.

But Blizzard wouldn’t do that. They’d release the quest, then issue a press release to IGN showing how inclusive they were… except the quest would be a token fetch quest (and probably bugged). Then, when someone pointed out the quest was a bugged PR move, Blizzard would censor them for being anti-LGBT.

[Ashlerian-ragnaros]

Because, as the very non-hypocritical person he is
exhibit A

You are assuming that I have positions I do not have, based on things I have not said, and trying to call me close-minded because of them.

Assumes every gay character must be a gay token.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

Assumes every gay character must be a gay token.

Remember that thing I said about you, and reading comprehension… and needing it?

Honest question: Why can’t a character in a LGBT relationship have interesting arcs? Why assume they’ll be “walking -talking sexual preference stand ins”?

They ABSOLUTELY can make it interesting!

[Billeh-barthilas]

I didn’t really make it simple for anyone then did I?

I’ll do that now

This is a fight for Facebook and not for wow forums damn you all

[Vanité-proudmoore]

But Blizzard wouldn’t do that. They’d release the quest, then issue a press release to IGN showing how inclusive they were… except the quest would be a token fetch quest (and probably bugged). Then, when someone pointed out the quest was a bugged PR move, Blizzard would censor them for being anti-LGBT.

I do have to agree with this, sadly.

[Dreta-stormrage]

Hey, it would be a great Facebook post. I just prefer watching nuclear purification in all its awesome glory. Wear eye protection!

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

FWIW, I’m not a big fan of token do-nothing romances of any kind, no matter who is involved. Let the characters be characters.

Steve and Peggy > Steve and Sharon

[Groovdog-ghostlands (Groovdog)]

No offense as a white anglo-saxon cis married male Gen Xer I get discriminated against every day because you make assumptions about me just like people make assumptions about you. You wont convince anyone who isnt already convinced, so trying is not only a waste of time it is just flexing your purported victimhood. Get two groups of people together and they will always gravitate towards people like them, simple fact verified by lots of research. I personally dont care about what you do with your life as long as you dont care what I do with mine.

[Arlenadja-moon-guard]

And herein lies the problem. You are starting with a supposition ( “They just don’t like the gays!” ) and reading that into the statement and actions of others. You are projecting that on them . The example you provided would have required you to got back in time, or fundamentally alter a core piece of the lore, and instead of assuming people wouldn’t want that specific change, you are assuming that it just has to be about some kind of bigotry.

So based on that very mild nitpicking you did that doesn’t, to be clear, constitute an actual counter-argument, you managed to conclude all of this? This is EXTREMELY bad faith dude.

[Devette-undermine]

If you really want to see reality portrayed in WoW, why don’t we start by including other minorities? 13%-14% of US population is black, but the only people I’ve ever seen in game that look like me are evil dragons.

I don’t go on forums crying and making posts about the obvious disparity and lack of minorities in key roles. Heck, they even took our skin tone away with a patch update, because I guess they didn’t think minorities played WoW. They are featuring my skin tone as an “upgrade” in Shadowlands.

There are plenty of examples of non heterosexual characters in WoW, but its not good enough for you. You want it to be front and center. No one else is complaining that their ethnicity or background is not represented and then accusing anyone that disagrees with them of being hateful or phobic.

So I guess you can keep on crying here, why I admire Nefarion, the closest thing to a main character anyone who looks like me will ever get to see.

[Ashlerian-ragnaros]

You should! Reading comprehension is an important life skill.

Yeah, you should check up on it, before you try to pin me down on that, despite never even referencing your beliefs or what your legitimate stance on LGBT rights and representation or whatever, except to quote you when you were so extremely fixated on me apparently trying to turn tyrande and malfurion gay for some reason.
But yeah, go for it man. Use that cheat code for arguing. Don’t assume my positions, and you are literally not allowed to do so if I say so, despite trying to dismiss every single person asking for LGBT representation that isn’t a gay token character put there by multimillionaire corporations to tap into another source of income.

Assumes every gay character must be a gay token.

Assumes every gay character MUST be a gay token, until you are called out for it. Nice move.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

So based on that very mild nitpicking you did that doesn’t, to be clear, constitute an actual counter-argument, you managed to conclude all of this?

What I wrote is a clear counter-argument to what you wrote.

This is EXTREMELY bad faith dude.

Okay, for the sake of the discussion, let’s say what I wrote was a bit… harsh.

I could have been more diplomatic. Still, it looks like you are assuming that people have a problem with x, when they actually have a problem with y.

[Idun-wyrmrest-accord (Idun)]

The whole point of the other thread was about LGBT representation in wow. Whats wrong with that?

Because at the end of the day the likelihood of Blizzard making Anduin/Wratthion or Flynn/Shaw a reality are very, very slim. And the likelihood of accusations of those decisions being touted as “Blizzard is LITERALLY ERASING MY EXISTENCE!” is very very large.

There are gay NPCs in WoW. They’re not major ones. Go forth and write your fanfic, and complain no more.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

Flynn/Shaw

Is that a thing?

[Rosenivy-area-52 (Rosenivy)]

Eeyup. Folks like their banter

[Duffle-frostmourne]

I think your anger is blinding you. I bet if you started talking to him fresh you’d find he’d agree with you on several points you seem to think he doesn’t.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

Anger is easier than logic.

Happens to the best of us.

[Idun-wyrmrest-accord (Idun)]

Flynn/Shaw

Is that a thing?

Yeah, among some players.

[Vanité-proudmoore]

Steve and Sharon was so effing forced. The kiss in Civil War didn’t even look natural.

[Therinity-lightbringer]

Maybe don’t add politics to games then?