About the LGBT thread

[Donndu-area-52]

The Magni stuff is true. Know what I think, though? He needs to take back kingship of Ironforge for the culture.

[Malkarus-runetotem (Malkarus)]

The Magni stuff is true. Know what I think, though? He needs to take back kingship of Ironforge for the culture.

Absolutely.

[Trivenom-dalaran]

sociopolitical stance

I wonder if we’re not necessarily talking about the same thing. Having LGBT+ inclusion in story does not mean it has to be a primary selling point. Take the tracer is gay reveal for example. It literally isn’t even in the game, it was through a canon comic released for fans who enjoy the lore. If Illidan wants to flex his bi-curiosity, screw it, why not? It’s just as natural or random as if he were to chase the ladies (and after all the stuff with tyrande and maeiv, would anyone blame him at this point? okok not relevant). Isn’t the statistic something like 10% now? It’s really not that odd. Also, the left-handed thing is a huge strawman, because someone’s handedness doesn’t have any story significance, while there’s a tad bit of story significance on who I can ship canonically vs who I can ship on Ao3.

Notice, not once, did politics come up in that paragraph. Politics isn’t part of this conversation. At all. This is about Blizzard’s decision to let more characters be aligned as anything other than FemMasc heteronormative. Like, no offense, but you sound like a Gency shipper (Genji/Mercy), and that’s pretty much peak heteronormativity. You can be heterosexual without being weird about it… like, for example, D.Va/Lucio ship. That’s perfectly cool and doesn’t look like the same thing that our West has been pushing out for the past 1000-odd years.

[Ashlerian-ragnaros]

Yes, it did

Nah.
Again you’re rambling at literally nothing. Never once did Arlenadja imply that Malfurion and Tyrande should be have been made into two gay lovers. You’re going at something noone has even mentioned.
Yes of course Illidan going gay one expansion to the other would be annoying, because it wouldn’t make sense, but that was nowhere near mentioned in this whole debacle.
They literally said that if the Malfurion Tyrande questline was about two gay characters, everyone would be losing their minds about it, instead of being just mildly inconvenient, because internalized homophobia is a still a thing in the day and age of our lord 2020. Shocking.

[Hozaki-black-dragonflight]

(you hear a tiny tune playing on what seems to be the world’s smallest violin)

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

Having LGBT+ inclusion in story does not mean it has to be a primary selling point.

True!

Except Blizzard is shooting for this:
~https://www.polygon.com/2016/12/20/14028604/overwatch-gay-tracer

And this:
~https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/7/18172470/overwatch-soldier-76-gay-bisexual

So they can get this:
~https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2019/01/08/yes-overwatch-making-both-soldier-76-and-tracer-gay-is-a-big-deal/#7aea93737008

So you are correct, inclusion of any kind need not be a selling point.

But they’re totally going to sell it.

If Illidan wants to flex his bi-curiosity, screw it, why not?

Because his mad love of Tyrande has been a principle, story-driving part of his lore since his appearance in 2002.

His romantic interests have been discussed at length… and his bi-sexuality just happens to come up now?

Also, the left-handed thing is a huge strawman, because someone’s handedness doesn’t have any story significance, while there’s a tad bit of story significance on who I can ship canonically vs who I can ship on Ao3.

Except it isn’t. A straw-man is where someone builds an argument constructed of things you didn’t say, and argues with that instead. That’s not what happened here. You said " the omission of LGBT+ relationships speaks as loudly as their inclusion", and I responded that their omission of left-handed characters said the same.

Also, you can ship whoever you want.

Politics isn’t part of this conversation.

Blizzard, and other companies, make it part of the conversation. That’s what people are complaining about.

This is about Blizzard’s decision to let more characters be aligned as anything other than FemMasc heteronormative.

There’s nothing wrong with this, nor did I say there is anything wrong with this.

Like, no offense, but you sound like a Gency shipper (Genji/Mercy), and that’s pretty much peak heteronormativity.

Admittedly, I’m not familiar with what to cool ships are.

Again you’re rambling at literally nothing. Never once did Arlenadja imply that Malfurion and Tyrande should be have been made into two gay lovers.

Can you imagine for a moment if the Val’shara Tyrande x Malfurion questline was an LGBT questline for a moment?

They literally said that if the Malfurion Tyrande questline was about two gay characters, everyone would be losing their minds about it, instead of being just mildly inconvenient

I doubt it would have been much of an issue. Sure, some people would have complained, but it wouldn’t be the majority, or issue that people are assuming it would be.

And that’s the deal.

People who say “let’s have more LGBT stuff in the game” assume everyone who says “let’s not” somehow dislike LGBT people; in reality, they dislike game companies using politics to sell underwhelming games, and breaking established intellectual property to do so.

because internalized homophobia is a still a thing in the day and age of our lord 2020. Shocking.

More like internalized victimhood and projection.

Once again…

You are assuming that I have positions I do not have, based on things I have not said, and trying to call me close-minded because of them.

You are throwing punches in the air… and missing.

[Glavemistake-zuljin]

My sexuality is not to be used as a selling point for a game, i would rather they not include it at all versus using it to profit when they could truly care less about it.

[Ashlerian-ragnaros]

The names of the characters do not matter. They could’ve been anyone. It still keeps going r/woosh over your head.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

The names of the characters do not matter. They could’ve been anyone. It still keeps going r/woosh over your head.

If they were two brand new characters (or characters who relationship status is undetermined), and whose story is organic to the setting? Say, two Dryads, or two male druids? I doubt it would have been much of an issue. Sure, some people would have complained, but it wouldn’t be the majority, or issue that people are assuming it would be.

r/whoosh is right.

But not in the way you think.

[Tsavis-area-52 (Tsavis)]

Kinda like what’s been happening here, a few people patting themselves on the back over how smart they are, while insulting others. SMH. Not impressed.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

was just nerds

[Billeh-barthilas]

I think anyone who has watched enough YouTube believes that has given them credibility in any field they’ve watched a video on

And everyone seems to be an expert on social issues

[Ashlerian-ragnaros]

Tracer. Brand new character. Never seen being heterosexual. Revealed to have a same gender relationship in a comic about literal christmas.

“blizzard is literally forcing this down my throat, with their gay quota and being politically correct i’m literally shaking and crying rn oh my god how am i going to live my fantasies with tracer now”

You know that this

If they were two brand new characters (or characters who relationship status is undetermined), and whose story is organic to the setting?

this narrative you’re trying to push here, about it being with some brand new characters never developed or seen being actively heterosexual and fitting with the setting or whatever you want to name it. Is fake. It doesn’t happen. We already saw it, and we already saw the outrage over it.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

You are assuming that I have positions I do not have, based on things I have not said, and trying to call me close-minded because of them.

You are throwing punches in the air… and missing.

^ This? You’re doing it again.

Tracer. Brand new character. Never seen being heterosexual. Revealed to have a same gender relationship in a comic about literal christmas.

Yes. And not many had a problem with it. The outrage was manufactured.

Didn’t keep certain people from advertising it. You really think Polygon did that on their own?

“blizzard is literally forcing this down my throat, with their gay quota and being politically correct i’m literally shaking and crying rn oh my god how am i going to live my fantasies with tracer now”

Nobody said this, nor was it implied.

This is a narrative you’re trying to push.

[Syraldori-agamaggan]

There needs to be no month dedicated to that. Not every single separate group needs to have their own persona month. I dont have a single month dedicated to what I believe…instead I have the entire year. Just feel what you feel in private all day everyday and there will be no need for a month. That implies that if that is your month, then the other 11 or not your months. But if you do not do that, then you can simply say that no month needed. Normal people are not so self absorbed that they fell the need to force the rest of the world to adapt to their way of living.

[Ashlerian-ragnaros]

^ This? You’re doing it again.

Literally don’t know who you said this to, and don’t care, because I’ve seen pretty much all I need to.

Nobody said this, nor was it implied.

This is a narrative you’re trying to push.

Despite being what the vast majority of people on this thread and the last one keep saying in response. Just having LGBT characters exist equals having them being showed down their throat, like it’s a personal insult.
“Shoved down my throat” Is the key sentence here, which I see being used very, very often.

[Billeh-barthilas]

Okay look I’m going to make this simple for everyone

Tomorrow if they decided to make Baine fall in love with Jaina I’d think that’s lame

Tomorrow if they decided to make Baine fall in love with wrathion first I’d probably Lol then think it’s lame

No one cares about a romance in a bad story

They also now run the risk of just shoehorning a gay character in which just feels tacky

[Dreta-stormrage]

Okay look I’m going to make this simple for everyone

I’ll make it simpler.

pushes some buttons on a screen

Alrighty folks. Anaheim’s been called in. The nukes will fly in the mornin’ and we’ll get to see a third thread pop up after

[Vanité-proudmoore]

It’s more “Write characters with interesting arcs, not walking-talking sexual preference stand ins.”

Sorry if I’m misrepresenting your point, if I am, let me know.

Honest question: Why can’t a character in a LGBT relationship have interesting arcs? Why assume they’ll be “walking -talking sexual preference stand ins”?

What’s so wrong about asking Blizzard for LGBT characters with interesting arcs?

Cause I’m with you. Give me a character that interacts with my character like “HEEEEEY, GIRL! We’re going to the bar to pick up MEN cause I’m GAY!” and I would be extremely annoyed.

However, what’s wrong with me wanting one. One. ONE. LGBT character in-game where the sexuality isn’t the driving force of the character, but the character has an interesting arc.

Give me a refugee who’s trekking through Voldunai with his husband to find a place away from the Snake people.

Or, give me a Forsaken who’s searching the Maw for her deceased wife to try and reunite with her.

Or, preferably, something better than those. Why is it such a sin to ask for well thought out LGBT representation that would be interesting and engaging?

[Keyturn-grobbulus]

Would you say its because people will go out of their way to smash the thread instead of just discussion?

More like you go out of your way to use homosexuality to bait people.