I disagree. The “reason” is simply that the group didn’t want to play with the person they voted out, that’s reason enough
On the flip side, why are we punishing the experienced players who prefer a faster pace? Tanks have plenty of tools to practice and improve their skills before jumping into group runs. They can use follower dungeons, train on dummies to master their rotation, or form their own group of like-minded players who are okay with slower-paced runs while they get comfortable and learn the mechanics.
This is a fair point. However, there’s no reliable way for the system to determine why someone was kicked. In my experience, these vote kicks are rare enough that I don’t see it as a widespread issue.
It’s likely more than 5 minutes, but even so, that’s not the key issue here. If a group’s enjoyment is being impacted, for any reason, they have the right to replace the source of that frustration.
Take me as an example: This character is a twink. I’m literally the zoomiest of zoomers when it comes to dungeons.
If I join a group of four random players and they don’t want to play with me because I’m soloing the dungeon at a speed they can’t match, they have every right to kick me. Sure, I haven’t slowed them down, I haven’t prevented XP gain, in fact, I’ve likely enhanced it, but if playing with me isn’t fun for them, they’re fully entitled to use the tools Blizzard provides to handle the situation.
That’s more likely to be because there aren’t any sides to this.
You cannot “abuse” vote kicking in WoW, it is a non sequitur due to how vote kicks work in WoW. Per definition every vote kick is a democratically held vote in which the group decide on whether they want you to be part of the group or not.
There’s no “sides” to this, but I will say there’s a lot of forum contrarians who have made it a very popular thing to complain about.
What I’m suggesting here is adding nuance. I say it depends on the reason because the person who is kicked is punished. If the person being kicked simply isn’t pulling fast enough for the group, that doesn’t sound like something where they should be punished.
I feel like having to wait longer for a tank isn’t a punishment but rather a consequence. Just because you’re a good player doesn’t seem like a justified reason to put a deserter debuff on the tank, thus removing a tank from the queue for people who wouldn’t otherwise mind.
I posted my idea, but there are other things that could potentially fix this. For example, what if the vote to kick had a few options and one of those was “not skilled”, which was a softer kick, that didn’t apply the debuff?
What if there was a hidden MMR score for people, and one could check “I only want to play with other skilled players” or “I don’t mind learning groups”
It’s weird to me that Blizzard hasn’t tried to refine who people are playing with. It is something that all of the “AAA” games do – if you play LoL for example you will be playing with similarly skilled people automatically, in general, since they use a hidden MMR.
You prefer to be in a faster group, while I prefer to be matched faster. Who is right here?
A new player probably doesn’t know anybody. Normal dungeons would be a great place to meet other people in theory but doesn’t seem so in practice.
They could change that with my idea to give a multiple choice reason.
I look at it like personal relationships. A successful relationship needs a lot more positive interactions to a negative ones to balance things out. If a couple argues every other day, they’re likely going to split. If they argue once a month, and the other 27-30 days they get along, they probably stay together.
I think people think of stuff like tanking in the same way. It just takes one bad experience for someone to go sour. I just watched a healer friend of mine give up on retail because they were bullied in a key, they are now playing classic until next season. Was it the first time? Probably not, but most of the runs we did together were fine.
I think the level of pickiness does matter, as far as the impact it has on the 5th person, and the people waiting in the queue since it does have repercussions beyond the 3 that successfully vote kick someone.
I hear you there but you didn’t try to do anything malicious, so you ALSO don’t deserve a deserter debuff. And maybe they don’t deserve to cut to the front of the line
I think this is actually a great idea. I would 100% be in support of this.
I don’t see this as being an option for normal and heroic dungeons. The failure rate on them is so low that the MMR would mean nothing at the end of the day as everybody’s would be so inflated.
They do in competitive content. All ranked pvp is broken up by MMR. It’s just that normal and heroic dungeons are so easy, that it would be pointless to do.
But there are tools they can still use, such as the looking for group tool. Or simply going old school and chatting in /1 General
I agree that there was nothing malicious done on my part. HOWEVER, because players abused the /kick option, by holding groups hostage the debuff is needed. It’s the lesser of 2 evils.
I was around when tanks and healers would hold dungeons hostage until the group would kick them so they could get a more desirable dungeon. It was horrible and caused queues to skyrocket to sometimes over an hour long for a random dungeon.
The vote kick “system” needs tweaking and they’re intentionally ignoring it, it’s not going to “go away”.
The “anonymous” vote kicks with a “insert whatever you wanna type” with a action pausing vote kick obnoxiously in the middle of your screen is unpleasant. There should also be a limit to how many vote kicks an account can initiate.
The debuff should be 15 minutes, we’re paying customers… right? I think 30 is too damn high.
LFR should function on a boss by boss basis again for debuffs. If you’ve killed a boss you’re free to escape without further “consequence”. It’s sad that a loot locked raid operates this way making a chain deserter debuff for anyone who backfills.
If you’re booted from a dungeon, I think that’s “punishment” enough as well no need to give them a 30 minute debuff. Just make sure that person can’t queue back into the group that booted em.
notice how they feel the need to keep telling us to stop posting OUR concerns about the game in here…but this is BLIZZARDS forum and BLIZZRD tells us to bring our issues like this HERE.
I think some of their posts demanding we stop talking about it are spam at this point.
Ok, I can see that but what if the MMR were self-selected. Right now you can check a box that says you are experienced. What if there were a few boxes, with one for learning. I think there are ways to improve the matchmaking that would also reduce unhealthy friction. I am not the one to say if my idea is the best one, but I wish this were something blizzard were iterating on instead of just saying “the system is perfect it’s a democracy”
I feel like someone asking to do normal dungeons in this day and age will wind up being ridiculed in General. On a busy server that channel is very often filled with garbage. While I am happy to help if someone asks, I don’t really look at that channel anymore.
I agree this is not good either but ultimately the debuff is there to encourage people to stay. I think, as a whole, there are different nuances they could pay attention to here to increase the amount that people stay. Ultimately the deserter buff does pull people out of the pool, and if they’re a tank or healer it does slow groups down
I agree, but I also see Twinksalot’s point that it caused a different kind of abuse in the past. A system that addresses both problems would be a big win.
Tanks and healers are in high demand. Perhaps a solution to this, if they only want to do one dungeon, is to allow them to do the dungeons they want.
Every time I see that user post it is something very negative about somebody else, essentially insults. I am surprised they have the “MVP” role with how they treat others
no friend, the last one got locked over your side making harassing posts about my person instead of sticking to the topic.
The only spam here is you all spamming these threads with ‘stop talking about it’ posts…
This is blizzards forum for blizzards game and blizzard tells us to bring our issues here.
The hostage scenario is a way people could manipulate things, but what’s the outcome? The trash takes itself out? Seems like more of a win if you really think about it.
thats easily fixed by not having any timeout at all. If a tank wants to leave, do you really want him trashing your run? I dont. I want him to leave so we can get a tank who wants to be there…or just four man it like we have done so many times. Tanks arent really necessary if you have three good DPS and a bang up healer.
What’s another option? It pops up in the middle of the screen so people know a vote kick is in progress. I don’t see how that’s obnoxious or unpleasant.
I could not disagree more.
They tried that actually. The first debuff was 15 minutes, and it did not deter tanks and healers holding groups hostage. (Actually I think it may have been 10, then changed to 15, and then finally landed on 30).
Nope, that’s what enabled tanks and healers to hold groups hostage. It was horrible. The debuff is a lesser of two evils and it’s needed. (Do I hate it, yes. Is it needed… also yes)
you mean you arent able to connect the dots to THIS thread not being closed down…if as you claim, the last one was locked for spam, friend, then this one would have been locked too.
Since it hasnt been, i suggest we both stick to the topic and stop claiming something is spam just because we dont like the topic at hand
I think everything here is directly related to blizzard not vetting people before the run even begins. If peoples goals do not align, then they should not be forced to play together. Having a few options before the run even starts could prevent a lot of this.
Options like “I am learning” “I do not want to play with people who are learning” “I don’t want to run X dungeon” might initially seem like they decrease the pool, but if people are quitting out of frustration then the pool decreases even more.
could also make our own groups, though I dont like to bother doing that…and I dont think new players are going to head to that straightaway to begin with. PUGs were the first thing I knew about with running dungeons because it was pretty straightforward.
I dont see it happening, but maybe they could add a few check boxes for a couple more things, but I dont see it making a lot of difference…and the argument will obviously be that it’ll divide the PUG pool even further, Id have to guess.
And yes, this thread is a violation of the rules. It should be closed.
The topic at hand is that there’s no issue to resolve. The vote system allows the majority of the group to vote either for or against a person being removed with the majority of the vote winning.
It’s a classic and simple system that’s been working for a long time. It’s the players who get kicked who complain and come up with silly reasons why those other 4 player should be forced to play with them or be actioned.
Thankfully, players can make their own groups. Always have been able to and can still do so.
I suggest that the LFD and LFR system be shut-down completely. It would remove a lot of fake complaint threads about the V2K system
