A Rant - Keys should not derank

[Sarama-firetree]

@Tortilla-area-52

Could you explain further?

If good non-meta players are getting left out of groups, any smart person would start snapping them up. Fast groups, more runs done, win-win.

After all, as you pointed out, the risk is more about the unknown player, not the class.

[Justrelax-dalaran]

Can you be my bro please?

[Furciferon-illidan]

$100000000000000000 please

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

But if keys don’t derank, the group that needs 10 tries is on equal grounds because it takes far less time.

I don’t think those two groups should be on equal ground.

Or maybe the group that needs 10 tries ends up ahead due to more time alone.

[Marsius-bleeding-hollow]

It’s certainly strange.

If you wipe in a raid, why doesn’t it derank the gear that’ll drop? Hmm?

Also, they basically they got rid of limited attempts in raids.

It’s just kinda odd they allow M+ to exist like that, but no other PvE content.

Mythic raids, you can try again and again, with no punishment.

[Tortilla-area-52]

@Furciferon-illidan

I don’t know if this is an unpopular take but I remember an affix in BFA I found quite interesting, the ghosts of your enemies coming back at once to blast your faces. I liked that.

Reaping. That was a fun affix but apparently was really unpopular among the lower community cause tanks didnt really plan around it. Think I heard that in one of their dev interviews or something.

[Justrelax-dalaran]

You’re expensive.

[Evilira-barthilas]

@Tortilla-area-52

This will be a longer post

It doesn’t need to be long, keys should derank.

[Tortilla-area-52]

@Sarama-firetree

If good non-meta players are getting left out of groups, any smart person would start snapping them up. Fast groups, more runs done, win-win.

Not quite because they don’t get a chance because people are unwilling to run with them.

@Sarama-firetree

After all, as you pointed out, the risk is more about the unknown player, not the class.

When you know how good the class is, but you don’t know about the player. The logical decision is choose the class.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Marsius-bleeding-hollow

If you wipe in a raid, why doesn’t it derank the gear that’ll drop?

If you fail to kill a boss you don’t get loot from it.
If you fail to complete a key you don’t get loot from it.

If you just barely manages to kill a boss you get loot from it, but you need to get better at it.
If you manages to complete a key, but need additional help in the form of time, retries, and more, it deranks because you aren’t at that level yet.

---

They are still following the same functional principles.

[Tortilla-area-52]

@Evilira-barthilas

It doesn’t need to be long, keys should derank.

Case closed, thanks.

[Furciferon-illidan]

Overall I think we can agree that people’s reasons as to why deranking is good or not has been communicated from both sides. A lot of it is just being repeated in different ways.

I personally don’t have that much more to offer, and I think it’s about time I go cook myself a steak or something.

[Tortilla-area-52]

@Shadybolt-thrall

If you manages to complete a key, but need additional help in the form of time, retries, and more, it deranks because you aren’t at that level yet.

If you wipe to a boss, why dont you go back to the boss before it if you “aren’t at that level” yet?

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

What do you think about keys not deranking, but rewarding points up to 4 times? (4 best keys are counted for the dungeon.)

And with tyrannical/fortified removed, people no loner need to time 2 keys.

[Marsius-bleeding-hollow]

@Tortilla-area-52

If you wipe to a boss, why dont you go back to the boss before it if you “aren’t at that level” yet?

That’s kinda my point.

Raids let you try again and again at the same point.

Keys, don’t lol. You could kill 3 bosses and fail on the 4th, but you did most of the dungeon.

You’re punished and have to do the whole thing on an easier difficulty, and it’s strange to me.

[Tortilla-area-52]

@Fauxstrasza-stormrage

What do you think about keys not deranking, but rewarding points up to 4 times? (4 best keys are counted for the dungeon.)

I personally wouldn’t care either way if it was just top 2, 3, 4, or 5. I just like playing the game and hate sitting in queue =D

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

I just want to reward consistency over just bruteforcing heh. Current system does with deranking.

Multiple keys counting is a way, but imagine needing to time 32 keys for full score lol.

[Faroda-moonrunner]

Affixes are changing for the highest keys that are past the level that awards the best gear.

I rarely play any Mythic+, so I could be missing something, but I don’t see a problem with removing the key deranking at this very high level only or considering adding multiple charges to a key of that level.

But the counterpoints about it being a bad idea for low keys are 100% right. Never underestimate the nonsense players will put themselves through for minimal rewards. Folks will absolutely find ways to exploit their way to the best gear even if it sounds absolutely insane when you write down their methods. There must be a fail state and it must “feel bad” if it’s going to be a pillar of endgame progression that is equal to raiding.

[Tortilla-area-52]

I would love an mmr rating that updates when you fail or time like PvP. I know people wouldn’t really go for that cause it would probably cause way too much toxicity but it is the best way to combat the bruteforcing vs skill dynamic imo.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Tortilla-area-52

logical decision is choose the class.

The logical decision is to fill my group and get to actually playing the game. The point at which Mets becomes a necessity isn’t even in sight of most players.

You can solve your problems by not being

@Tortilla-area-52

unwilling to run with them.