A Rant - Keys should not derank

Introduction
This will be a longer post and I hope to keep your attention till the end as this topic affects the community at large. If not, TLDR at the end. It is a complicated subject and deserves a flushed out review of the current system to really understand why key deranking on failure should have been a thing of the past years ago. Firstly, lets go into the positives that key deranking has in good faith.

Benefits of Key Deranking

  • Increase risk / reward. Potentially an increase in fun / dopamine.

  • Incentivizes safe playstyles.

This is really all that I can find arguments for so lets deconstruct why this opinions are misplaced.

Increase risk / reward
Firstly, an increase risk / reward can sometimes make game play more meaningful. As someone who only plays D4 hardcore, leveled to 60 in hardcore wow, I understand there is something to it. However, D4 and hardcore wow are solo endeavors. In M+, I must be invited to keys to play the game. As a warrior main that will both tank and dps, it is nearly impossible to get invited to keys at 14-15+ with the current meta. And to be frank, it isn’t the communities fault. This is what risk / reward does. It incentivizes playing safe. It reinforces the meta and homogenizes the game. People won’t take chances because the consequence if they do are hours wasted of homework keys to get another chance.

I’ve spent multiple hours just sitting and applying to groups. Of course, the common streamer thing to say is “no just run your own key” or “make friends”.

Running your own key is about as impractical as finding a needle in the haystack. Keys at this level require intense levels of precision and even the slightest blip can brick the key. In one sitting, I spent 4 hours trying to push my key back to a key that would give me IO and it still didn’t work. Meanwhile, the shadowpriest in discord with me attempted a 16 uldaman 5-6 times that day. I will never be able to allocate the same amount of time to actual push keys at that rate.

I think making friends and forming a group is great, especially if you play off meta. It is about the only thing you can do to climb. However, friends have schedules and often can’t play everyday. This then incentivizes you to save your keys for your friends which is contrary to the “run your own key” advice. Today I have all day to play and I cannot run my own key cause I’m saving it for my friend who comes back tomorrow. I cannot play my warrior today. I’ve done one 16 ruby in 4 hours of trying to play the game. I just want to play.

Incentivizes safe playstyles’
Folks say that if you gave people unlimited chances, players would just do giga pulls at the beginning of the dungeon until they got it right. This maybe true for high end key pushes (<0.1%) but I strongly doubt pug groups would sit there and wipe 5-10+ times trying to perfect a initial pull. Pugs leave after one wipe these days.

As a the goblins say, time is money friend. Most folks will not sit there and waste their time doing crazy pulls if to time the dungeon doesn’t require these crazy pulls. If the dungeon does require crazy pulls, why not let them try? Let people play the game.


Negatives of Key Deranking

  • Losing time to homework keys
  • Incentivizing swapping to meta in order to play the game
  • Discourages big / creative pulls
  • Discouraging inviting non-meta classes
  • Disconnects / ragequits punish players for no mistake of there own
  • Decreases accessibility to the game

Losing time to homework keys
No one enjoys pushing their key back up, period. Don’t really think anyone has to argue this.

Incentivizing swapping to meta
I’m tired of always being told I’m not X class or having to swap classes just so I can play the game. I miss playing with more than the same three dps specs in a key. People shouldn’t be discouraged from playing the class they enjoy.

Discourages big / creative pulls
You know whats fun about the MDI? The crazy pulls these guys do because they can test keys and rerun them over and over. The people complaining about doing a crazy pull and resetting if it goes wrong, who cares? That is fun. I’ve never heard anyone say many that “pull was so big, i hated it”. People like big numbers.

Discouraging inviting non-meta classes
Maybe you don’t have the key that gives you IO but another person does. Pug will feel less dependent on running only meta if key deranking goes away. They will more than likely take a chance on you cause they don’t face homework-key-hell if things don’t go well.

Disconnects / ragequits
I don’t know about you but there is nothing worse then pushing up a homework key to a push key only to get hit with a disconnect on a team member. Of no fault of your own, you have no just wasted all that time pushing the key up and doing that key.

Also, I’m sure we’ve all had ragequitters on the first pull if they die. Or people gg’ing on the first wipe even though it is still timable. Why is the key holder punished for this behavior?

Decreases accessibility to the game
If keys didn’t derank, it would allow folks to just play the game more without repercussion, full stop. Have a inexperienced friend? Why not give him a go at a 16 when his highest is a 12? With no deranking, you wouldn’t have to sit in queue applying for hours. Just let people play the game


Conclusion
Overall, I enjoy keys but I cannot understand why key deranking exists in the game. The benefits are extremely shaky and I’ve really only heard streamer hold these positions. I think this is mainly because they likely don’t have issues finding the keys they need or players to push back up their homework keys. I don’t hate streamers or anything like that but I genuinely think they are out of tune with the general key population.

I think if we made this change we’d look back on it as we did the depletion change. Good riddance.

TLDR: Key deranking stifles playstyles and class picks. It punishes players for ragequits, disconnects, and other factors outside of their control. Please remove it.

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There’s a thread a day about this, with all the same points. All of which are countered every single time.

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Could you provide a link to it? Didn’t see it.

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Google it.

These ideas are put forth constantly and easily defeated every time.

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Counterpoint : Being able to just select what difficulty you wanted the enemies set to in the disgaea series rather than having to go through the congress every single time you wanted to move it up or down was very big for the series.

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Crazy can’t find a post on google or on the forums with most of these points but I’d love to have a link or any engagement at all instead of

Google 10char

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Not sure what the disgaea series is but I agree. I think just being able to select your difficultly and try is great for the game.

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Maybe for high/push keys.

Google how to socialize and speak to others.

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I’m doing that right now.

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I still don’t really see a benefit for lower keys to deplete. Disconnects and ragequits happen at all key levels.

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Translation: “I have nothing to add to the conversation so I’m going to default to derailing it and pointing fingers at everyone else”

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Points against the key system are only “defeated” in the minds of a tiny minority that enjoy it the way it is.

Considering how much the population and participation in M+ or the game in general drops rapidly after the first season every expansion, I’d say not that many players are as attached to it as those people are.

I’d guess more people would enjoy a change or removal of the key system as it is compared to those that like it the way it is. Maybe they should do a survey.

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2 of these is just someone saying they had a DC which is just one of my points. All of these are over a year old and none of them include all of my points, but I’d be happy to look through them.

Thanks for providing more discussion to the topic.

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No, I’m telling him this has been discussed to death and only a few people seemingly still don’t understand why this is a bad idea and they all think that their ideas are original. He capped it off with asking people to link these discussions.

Learn to Google.

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Saving players from themselves when they clearly don’t belong. Because WoW players are good at ignoring they’re not good enough.

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Its sort of like… a mix between final fantasy tactics and a visual novel format with numbers that get ridiculous pretty fast, they’re all on sale on steam today if you want to look at them

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Yep. If you can’t do the key it gives you an easier one. :dracthyr_yay_animated:

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oh i know that part when i played classic wow i thought i was going to kill a skull mob and that ended like you think 10 secs and dead lol