But this system recreates your not willing to group with non-meta players again.
But say, 1 rating penalty after each failure, will be nearly non-existent, but still exist to an extent. Could be lenient enough to work?
1 rating penalty after each failure, and taking the two best keys.
I absolutely love the Disgaea series. I played the original when it was first released in the West. Iâve played every Disgaea game since then. Number 2 was probably my least favourite but only because of the felony system.
Thereâs absolutely 0% chance a system ever existing that can remove rating in a pve setting.
Why? If someone needs 10 tries to succeed at something vs someone needing two tries, whatâs wrong with establishing that one is in fact better than the other?
Somewhat but the ratings would be much different. No longer would a spriest who did 200 keys to get all 16s done be the same as say a boomkin who did 80 of his own keys to get all 16s done.
In the current rating they would be, in the new system the spriest would be hypothetically much lower than him.
My main issue isnât really people play with meta players. Its that I have to do 1-5 keys just to do one IO key cause I canât get invited. Or I have to hold my key for my friend because they are that precious lol
I already addressed this.
They are following the same principles, not the exact same mechanics. One is a raid and is required to be structured after that, the other is a dungeon (M+ specifically) and has to be structured in a way that makes sense according to that.
Things may be different up in the 16âs where you seem to be playing, but for the vast majority de-ranking is what allows the game to reward even if you miss on time.
Itâs pretty simple, either you get credit and an end chest but your key drops on a miss or, you only get credit and an end chest on success.
The game canât let people continually fail a key over and over while collecting rewards.
Maybe there could be a selectable âante upâ mode where the key holder can chose that either or. The key wont drop, but you donât get credit unless you time. If your up in the 16âs and only worried about IO then that seems reasonable.
Rating could only work if it follows the same rules as pvp does i.e. the same 5 people have a group rating. But never a personal rating.
semantics.
These are not the same thing.
In a raid, your guild could spend hours - or even weeks - trying to take down one boss.
In Mythic+, weâre talking about a 1 hour commitment, at most, to do the entire dungeon.
Mythic+ is afforded the same ability to try the same boss repeatedly that raids get. Thereâs just a shorter timer in Mythic+ (with the raid timer being 1 week).
If you think it is âsemanticsâ that a raid is a raid and that a dungeon is a dungeon, then you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Or are you now going to advocate for there to be mechanics in dungeons that require multiple healers as opposed to just the one you have in a dungeon?
No, it isnât semantics and it is a fundamental core aspect of understanding game design (or design just in general).
Keys derank to keep average key level from inflating too much throughout the season as more and more people time their key through brute force attempts and refuse to lower it, repeating the process.
I could see adding charges, perhaps 1-2, to a keystone before it depletes / deranks to the next level, but removing it completely would cause a lot of issues.
But anyway thinking:
If the system required two timed runs for max score. And your previous key lost 1 rating until you timed your next key of that dungeon. (so 5 runs = -5 to score.)
At a certain point someone who can consistently do key -1 will be better than someone able to time key +1 very rarely.
Which they likely are given the consistency.
And as soon as a key is timed, they get a âperfectâ key score, until they deplete a key in that dungeon again. But since the tax was applied on the previous keyâs score, they have to repair their old score for full value which might endanger their newly acquired score.
The more I think about, I donât see a problem if starting at +11 the key holder has the option to set the run to âall or nothingâ on rewards. No vault credit and no end chest if they miss, but the key wont drop.
For people exclusively pushing IO that would take out a lot of frustration.
Uhh, that sounds horrible.
For people exclusively pushing IO that would take out a lot of frustration.
The penalties do not make it less frustrating but more.
Seems pointless to not reward gear. If theyâre there for points, they would have left the would be untimed key long before the end of the dungeon anyway.
The problem with this is it changes the dynamic of key pushing, especially in the higher ranges, enormously. Quantity overtakes quality and the amount of hours youâre willing to invest into the game becomes a much more relevant metric than how good you are at your class / the game in these keystones. People who get to practice with consistent groups gain even more of an advantage in this ecosystem than they already have, and the title gets more and more out of reach as the keys required to earn it get singificantly harder.
This is already the hardest key pushing season we have ever had, purely because of the drop in low end participation caused by the key level squish. Keys at cutoff now are 4-5 levels harder than they ever were at previous season cutoffs, even if the rating numbers themselves donât reflect it.
This change would not help the key pushing scene achieve their goals, it would make their goals significantly harder.
Thoughts on increasing 0.1 to 0.2% because of the key level squish?
Hard to say with 1 season of data. I havenât even decided if I like or dislike the increase in difficulty for the title. Itâs just weird that season 1 title cutoff was 24s, which are barelty equivalent to current 12-13s.
A 19 now is a 31-32 in S1.
The problem is the game cant have both rewards based on the key level that you get even if you fail, and also not down ranking your key.
Some people are in there for the rewards, and if thatâs the case they need to risk down ranking the key.
Some people are there only for IO, in which case itâs pretty frustrating if for example, something stupid happens on the first pull and you end up with a de ranked key and have to time a lower key to get back to try again.