And nothing will guarantee that keys not depleting will curb that behavior. Push keys will remain push keys with people picking meta because that’s what makes the key go up.
Mythic raids have no penalty to not clearing them, yet you frequently people do meta strats too, should we rework mythic raids because of it?
But what does removing deranking fix about this? You’re not more likely to time the key if it doesn’t deplete. You’re just reducing the time to get back to that point.
Yes, it takes time and effort to get the key you’re looking for. Thankfully, to that end, you can progress from other peoples’ keys too. M+ is a social form of content, even when people are quiet.
People wouldn’t wait for “the perfect group” as much because they retain the key.
Downside: pugging might be a huge waste of time due to a plethora of leeches that don’t even remotely belong.
That’s terrifying if someone can buy a carry, then fail upwards enough times to succeed.
People can do that same with the current key system but it’s kept in check to an extent by keys deleveling.
You asked for me to drop my hardcore toon. I thought you wanted to see it lol.
If you want. Go take a look at all the keys I’ve done this season. Those are only the keys I finished. There are probably about 2-3 for every 1 I’ve finished. Multiple that by about 30 ish minutes. I dont feel like doing the math.
Then why insist you’ve spent more time on that than your HC Warrior, knowing full well that the bias of time spent in poor spirits lingers longer than good spirits, which presumably accounts for most of your time on a successful 1-60 HC run.
Look, I don’t like contributing to this dogpile on you. I know from experience it’s overwhelming, and I’m sure you’re near the limit of putting up with it. So I’ll conclude with this; you’re looking at the wrong thing to solve your problems. Removing key depletion is not the magic pill you suspect it would be.
That’s what I appreciate about it as well. They’re litmus tests, you won’t be able to have a key in your bag you have no business having due to bad mechanics or poor gameplay.
Can’t keep throwing bodies at the problem until it’s solved if you have penalties.
It isn’t just meta that makes the group go up. Skill does too. People wont just choose meta at all times because there is less risk / time sunk. So people may opt to choose something different if they feel the player might be a slight bit better (say a 3300 spriest vs a 3400 warrior).
It also is the case that not every time a meta class queues up. So instead of waiting for an hour before calling it quits. The non-meta class that is queueing can get a chance to play.
These are fundamentally different game types. If Mythic raid only allowed you to say prog a boss 1 pull otherwise you had to do the last boss over again, I think people would be much more strict with their composition dont you think? That is what mythic+ is like.
I think perhaps keys should just be gone. They can make it like Diablo where we select the level we want to run, and new levels open based on how much time we had left at completion.
That being said, even if keys stopped depleting or we could just select the M+ levels, I believe people will still be very unlikely to invite non-meta classes for high keys. Maybe people will be slightly more open to it, but I don’t think it will be a big difference.
I mean even Diablo 3 has a meta that rules king among the top timed GRs per category (1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, per class for 1s)
But to be clear I hate your idea for WoW.
Counter point: without key depletion players will trust IO score and key possession even less. They’ll fall back on other deciding factors… such as meta.
Because I’ve spent months pushing keys and I spent 3 weeks doing 1-60. I dont need to calculate it out cause I know where I’ve been.
You don’t have to and im not overwhelmed but its funny to me I tell you my experience and hours spent doing things and you question the validity of it. You have opinions on high keys and solutions to things you’ve never experienced yet. It may not benefit you but the vast majority of high key pushers want these changes. Regardless, have a good day.
I didn’t offer solutions.
Find me these ‘most key pushers’ and show them to me. Invoke Raiimir, for all I care, I always like seeing his takes on these things. If he’s even subbed.
Why would people trust IO less? I often find meta players are skewed in IO and make more mistakes than their peers around the same IO. I’ve found the contrary in practice.
I think we simply have different expectations as to how people will behave. Yes, I can understand your point about non meta being picked slightly more often if there is less risk, however I cannot, and you neither, can quantify this.
I find it very unlikely that it would make a drastic difference to offset the negatives it would bring in other parts, that isn’t purely high keys.
without key depletion IO score becomes even less about consistent performance and more about repeating keys until you get a perfect run or just listing a key until you get carried.
That’s what OP wants. He understands everything I said, which means he explicitly wants the ability to brute force his way through the progression of high end keys.
I can understand it, given what’s involved in curating the right key for rating and leaderboard, but I also feel it cheapens the leaderboard as a result.
But, yknow. I don’t understand. Only OP does, apparently. No one on the forums is quite as good as he at M+ after all.
https:// x. com/jdotb/status/1611730509868011524
this guy is probably the most vocal about it but you can check some of his twitter posts about this topic and you’ll find many folks who agree with him.
This is what is about now except for only 5 classes. My spriest friends get into whatever key he needs, he failed uldaman 16 like 6-7 times pugging until he timed it when I let him on my key i pushed up after hours.
Only the meta gets to play right now. It has always been about repeating keys and skill. Thats the whole point of it.
Brother, I can post an Asmongold tweet and find thousands of people who agree. It still wouldn’t prove a majority, and neither one of us is out here vetting who’s agreeing with a twitter post.
So where are the people here to agree with you? I’ll even log into WoW to hear some testimony. Just show me the way, I want some firsthand accounts.
Personally I think looking at this problem from the lense of high keys as the end all be all to be flawed, you have to consider the whole of the community and how it works.
I think if you fail it enough times it should just upgrade once.