At the very highest key levels, the lack of risk creates a game mode where you will ALWAYS take the riskiest routes. Because there would be no punishment – including loss of time, you’d chain-reset to practice those bricked keys. (Practicing is not a waste of time.)
A safeguard against bricking keys would only turn to exploiting the system. These would trickle down to lower key levels as well, especially the “ragequit to save my key” disconnects. This would lead to more M+ leavers, which worsens the experience. And because the experience is worse, it leads to less participation in the “casual-competitive” bands of skill.
Example: Platinum players are generally good enough. Diamond players are Platinum players, but more keyed into competitive strategies. Toxic Diamond players get annoyed by Platinum players’ lack of execution and ragequit to save their key. Platinum players, who were likely okay with an early wipe, are now forced to quit. So, 1 toxic player ruined the last 15-30min for 4 other players.
As far as supporting a “no deplete” system, I think the only way to really make it work would be to create a literal “Push Week”. Push Week would prevent keys from depleting.
During “Push Week”, timed keys upgrade to the +1/+2/+3 of the same dungeon.
During “Push Week”, depleted keys (looted from EOD chest) are the same key.
During “Push Week”, depleted keys (due to reset/quit) are -1 of the same dungeon. (Same as now.)
Push Weeks:
Week #1, then every 4 weeks. (5, 9, …)
Last 2 weeks of Season
These last 2 weeks of the season are for players to try for their portals, or aim for a title.
Losing time to homework keys
Incentivizing swapping to meta in order to play the game
Discourages big / creative pulls
Discouraging inviting non-meta classes
Disconnects / ragequits punish players for no mistake of there own
Decreases accessibility to the game
Let’s talk about it. Losing time to “homework keys” is good. The fact there is a loss associated with failing a key makes the successful pushes feel better. Psychology thing.
Incentivizing swapping to meta? Nah there will always be players who only play meta, some players who just copy meta builds but don’t care what you do, and people who just don’t care about meta for themselves or anyone else. The M+ timer will add some incentive for meta as long as it exists. but taking away the timer defeats the purpose of the content.
Discourages big/creative pulls? It doesn’t stop you from experimenting. Any sort of loss would count as discouraging being creative and frankly with the amount of WoW streamers we have, the cowards don’t have to be creative. if you don’t want to lose time experimenting just watch the M+ players and copy their strats. If you want to experiment and be creative, you’re rewarded when you succeed. Back to the psychology thing. some loss makes the wins feel better.
Discouraging non-meta classes is countered by the facts above. Some people won’t care, play with them.
Disconnects /ragequits are two very different issues. Disconnects do punish players for something thats maybe out of their control. But there’s no way to make a system that protects you in the case of a disconnect without removing all risk from timing. Ragequits are rarely done just because someone’s in a bad mood. Generally ragequits are done because players realize this group won’t time the key and that’s what they came for. just do better.
Decreases accessibility? WoW has thousands of hours of content. They have only two pieces of content for players who want a real challenge. Mythic raiding and M+. Heroic raid can be done by any group able to follow directions and do semi-decent damage (set up keybinds, learn to turn with the mouse, get a few weeks of normal gear, and you’ll be great).
We don’t need more accessibility to high end content. currently the only barrier to high end content is how much time you want to put in. for a few hours a week you can push pretty high. It seems like you just have a lot of personal problems.
Losing the time you spend in the key and the time you spent to put together a group is enough lost time imo.
Me and the monk I play with are swapping classes to meta classes next tier because of this issue. There are tons of rerolls so much so that people put fotmtank as their character name or sigilenjoyer. Why do you think there will always be players that only play meta? Because, they are incentivized too.
I dont think we’ll agree on anything if you think that unlimited pulls doesn’t allow you to experiment more so than deranking keys. Most big routes are learned on tournament realm. Any top keyer will tell you that you can experiment on beta / tournament realm way more. This seems pretty disingenuous.
Non of these are facts. These are opinions.
I think when 90% of the title pushers are playing the same specs, it really isn’t a personal problem. These are system problems.
I think keys should not derank if you don’t time them but by less than 20% over. One second meaning the difference between +1 and -1 is a little weird. At some point people should +0 when they are at the right level for them, and just need to try again at the same level
This is an NA posting char because I play on EU. My main’s name is Ellipsìs and the HP refers to what was How2Priest and is now WarcraftPriests. I made this char to provide beta feedback in BFA because only the NA feedback forums ever get read.
Imagine playing Mario and whenever you die you have to do the previous level again, it makes no sense and it’s only there to waste your time.
In m+ de ranking had several implications.
1). You have to complete a key you don’t need for score, the players you play with are of lesser quality and most likely are less aware of higher level strats and pulls.
2). When you complete that key it changes to another key, one that might be way harder or also not needed. The chance of quickly getting back to that key you actually need is pretty slim.
This to me just kills my motivation, I’ve had people leave my key for absolute bullcrap reasons and as a keyholder you are the one getting punished, you are one being set back hours of progress. Just to have the same thing happen again the next time.
Edit: Anyway OP, the forums really aren’t suitable for this kind of topic. Over my m+ play time (since Legion) I’ve probably made 10+ of these topics and you always get the same type of replies from the same type of people that don’t actually do m+ or at a very low level. They simply don’t understand what it’s like depleting a high level key and having to do homework keys for hours just to get back to where you started.
It’s done in a frustrating way, if no depleting means that on average the success rate of keys is higher then nothing really changes. The top players are going to have more success (maybe less relatively to lower level players) and maybe everybody goes up a key on average, but the system as a whole is less frustrating as a result.
And significantly more failures. Downranking is a difficulty regulation measure because we all know the playerbase won’t do it themselves.
I could see a charge system, say 2-3 before it goes down and resets, but keys not downranking at all would lead to widespread key inflation and a lot less successful runs on average.
You still have to time a key for it to upgrade… You just have more chances to do it. If anything it makes players more familiar with higher level keys since they have more attempts to do them.
I’ve proposed the charge system before too, that would honestly be great as well to at least protect your key from griefers and trolls.
And many of us who oppose removing key deranking in general have suggested that it might be okay above a certain level. For most keys run, deranking is vital to the system being able to direct players towards the level where they currently play. Giving a player who is ready for a +5 a +10 all season after a carry is not healthy for the system.
But by the time you reach +15, players are more likely to have a handle on their capabilities and whether they should choose to downrank a key. By all means, if we want the system to be in the players’ hands by then, that could be okay. But for the bulk of the player base, they’ll hang onto their +10 the rest of the season, even if the only way they’ll ever time it is if they get a team that can hard carry them to success.