Good please stop posting here cause your attitude is horrendous.
What attitude? Not lying down when someone made up stories and tried to pass it off as reality about me? Youâre not doing yourself any favours.
Heâs typing up a storm btw- he probably looked at my logs or io or something to spurn me further for having a based take. Letâs watch as he continues to create hyperbole:
edit: nice, he stopped after reading this comment finally lolol
You guys act like clowns. 
Itâs ok to fail your keys. Keys should deplete upon failure.
But there are also arguments against keys never deranking via a system (rather than players choosing to deplete with the panda in Valdrakken). Key deranking is critical to allowing M+ to self-regulate its difficulty, especially for consistent groups. Itâs honestly one of the best things about the entire M+ system. Players donât need to think about whether theyâre biting off more than they can chew; they just run a key, get the result, then run the key that came from that result. If the group drops too low, they start 2 and 3-chesting keys. If the group gets in over their head, they donât time the key and have an easier key for next time.
By removing automatic deranking (when I say automatic, I just mean the game determines when it deranks, not necessarily after a single untimed key), you remove that situation where a group thatâs over their head gets that feedback. They have to come to the conclusion they arenât ready for that level and derank it manually, after however much wasted time it takes for them to get there.
Not to mention this would also greatly inflate key levels across the board for these groups. A group could keep completing the harder keys for them to time until they get one of the easier ones and time it without issue, creating even more pressure on the keys they are running 1 level up. Then the following week that group could wind up several key levels over their head that they are likely going to waste time learning before choosing to derank just because the affixes changed. And thatâs without even mentioning all the ramifications on PUGs here, which there has already been plenty of discussion about in this thread if you are interested.
I definitely understand the appeal of not deranking keys for people trolling or technical difficulties (disconnects, usually), which is why I would be fine with a charge system. But the benefits of deranking when a key is seen through to completion are a definitive win for the mode.
What? I literally said what you said. Are you failed the comprehension check.
You would be surprised by how many donât. It also wouldnât matter because they would be the ones forming the groups because they have a non-depleteable key.
So you did read this and continued with your nonsense dribble.
It literally is not a fix in the slightest. Adding more issues and exploits creates more problems than it solves.
Clearly.
lmao, this is essentially what he does. Knee jerk replies without fully reading it or comprehending.
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He didnât make up stories, he was giving you hypothetical arguments but you took that as a personal slight cause youâre insecure and incapable of conceptualizing another opinion. Post all the clown emojis you want. You come off as an edgy teenager with tiktok brain.
Not everything needs to be PC and worded in ways to not âhurt peopleâs feelingsâ. What he said is true.
You on the otherhand seem to be triggered and tossing personal insults. He didnât. You should practice what you preach.
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The issue is auto deranking is often times the worst indication that you played bad. If youâre a key holder and a member disconnects or rage leaves, you are capable of doing that key, it wasnât your fault. Now you are punished for that.
Blizzard also is terrible about balance their dungeons. a 16 uldaman is about as hard as an 19 vault. If you are to get a 19 uldaman from a 18 vault, deranking via failing is honestly a waste of time for most groups. It would be better just to derank to 17 for that group most likely and try there.
There is no reason why players themselves canât adjust the tuning of the dungeon as they are doing with delves next season.
It likely would inflate some key levels however, that is perfectly okay with me. Inflation isnât necessarily a bad thing if it promotes everyone being able to play the game. You run into an issue where folks cannot play the game because of the meta and time commitments to do homework keys. Folks punching above their weight if they want to isnât hurting anyone in my opinion. Definitely hurting much less than people who are forced to play another character or game because pugging effectively stops at X key lvl.
We can agree to disagree. You can have your opinion on the matter but it most certainly is not definitive.
Group formation skills arenât equal across the board. My chances of success are about double I reckon if I make groups myself.
You can disagree with people without being a jerk about it. It isnât PC its just discussion without being a troll.
Did you even read the exchange?
Did you read your responses in return? Again, practice what you preach. If you canât control yourself then donât tell other people how to act.
etc, etc with you sending me notifications hereâŚ
Iâm getting mixed signals here⌠didnât you want me to leave? OrâŚ
I have a boyfriendâŚ
I certainly can control myself, it is why I havenât insulted you. If someone repeated wants to take the low road, Iâll meet them there. Not gonna let internet bullies run amuck.
My first response to him was pointing out that his communication was rude. Then he continues to act inflammatory.
You are not controlling yourself very well. It comes across as rules for thee but not for me. If you are going to preach not being inflammatory or rude, you should refrain from doing so yourself regardless of how someone else acts. You doing wrong in response to someone else doing wrong doesnât make you right or put you in a position to descalate. If anything it now turns it into an argument about nothing related to the topic.
ta da:
You know how we know you have no argument?
Your dodging and defaming of the opposite opinion, and disingenuous argument.
Thatâs how we know we should stick with keys being depleted for failed keys.
It is alright to be a failure. It is OKAY. But your key should continue to deplete for it.
Sure, which is where charges come into play.
Youâre also only looking at this from the perspective of the individual. Consistent groups donât need individual feedback, they get the feedback about where the group stands. The fact that it was my key isnât meaningful if it just so happened that I was holding the key we decided to run.
And groups are still able to do so. I have not once suggested that players should be disallowed from manually deranking their key if they decide to do so. If you know an Uldaman +19 is out of your wheel house, you can go to Valdrakken and set it to a 17 before you ever step foot into the dungeon.
From the perspective of players running +15 keys and higher, sure. But there are FAR more players running keys below this, which your changes would have an even bigger impact. Thatâs where Iâm most concerned about, and not having deranking in those levels where most people play have the most downsides. Meta is far less impactful. Homework keys donât exist. Folks punching above their weight DOES have an impact on the rest of the group, and players that choose not to derank can continue to have that impact.
But letâs be real here, do you honestly think key deranking has any significant impact on non-meta specs being able to get into keys? If you create a +19 group on a survival hunter, do you think youâll get many people signing up to join your key? Perhaps on the fringes of levels where meta gets treated as a nonnegotiable condition, you might be able to get groups running your own key. But even if non-deranking keys allows you to secure a high-level key on a non-meta spec, I find it highly unlikely youâll get too many qualified for those levels signing up to join a non-meta group leader.
It isnât rules for thee. It is pretty simple. Treat others with respect. If you donât, expect to be treated with disrespect right back.
Deescalating is a good tactic as well. Iâm doing it right now by not responding to his last post, or ignoring Snowpine and not engaging. However, it is important you call out and shame inflammatory posters here and there.
You just contradicted yourself.
Which all could have been avoided. You initiated this most recent exchange when he replied to the OP and not you. Post 401.
I just donât agree with this. You frame this as an âIncrease risk/rewardâ but fail to mention that the ârewardâ here being the loot already caps out at a certain key level, and this key level is often easily achievable by most people at some point in the season. If a key never depletes, then players would just be able to run +8s all day with no concern about actually timing them. (Someone already mentioned this in the thread). Blizz will certainly adjust this reward if it were to be implemented.
The other ârewardâ being increased rating potential will just be further diluted by pushing the average m+ rating higher. The title cutoff will vary. Letting keys not derank wonât make obtaining the title any easier.
You can play the game without having to run high keys. And if your motivation for running high keys is attaining a higher score then see above, because you would just have obtained a higher diluted score. And people arenât suddenly going to invite poor performing specs either because they wouldnât want to waste their time. Having the assurance that a key wonât derank so lets try it with a subpar group isnât really going to change much. Theyâll just kick people and remake with meta specs to finish the key. The main issue here is balancing.
If you truly just want to do really high keys and donât care about loot or rating, then yea I can see a situation where you could maybe get a pretend key that offers no reward (rating nor loot) and just lets you blast and have fun and practice and whatnot.
Iâm looking at it from both angles. I also play with a team when our schedules can align. Even with teams, a lot of keys you run are with pugs because your team is not online 100% of the time you are and keys are fun. This leads to pugging and having to hold your key because your team likely needs it since key scarcity is increased by deranking.
You havenât suggested that but you are saying the auto-derank on failure is critical for âself-regulating its difficultyâ when it in fact can be atrocious at self-regulating difficulty. A system where an intelligent person can pick the key level they are suited for is best.
What is better:
Me timing a 18 azure vault, getting a 19 key. Then debating whether or not to drop it to a 17 which is likely timeable or practice on the 19 even though we know it isnât timeable. If I do drop it, I have to run to town and talk to a vendor. Iâm essentially using my 19 key to test as youâd be able to do on a 17 in my ideal system.
Or just run an 18 azure and said well we got a 16 timed uldaman, lets just set the difficult to 17 and try that key.
It isnât just at 15 and higher though. The meta permeates through 13-14 levels as well. I wonât deny there are far more people below that and I wouldnât mind a separation for <12 keys like they are doing with affixes. It would greatly impact ability to play the game because key scarcity is gone. People can just yolo and play whenever they want.
Iâve already discussed this prior in this thread but meta specs especially tanks / healers arenât always queueing for these key levels. You sometimes wait 30 minutes, or hours, or even fold the group cause you canât find meta and dont want to risk your key when there are dozens of non-meta classes willing to try it. It would greatly increase the ability to bring non-meta.
At the end of the day I donât think the increase in failed keys across the board at all levels this will cause is worth the potential benefits, it also vastly favours premade groups with consistent schedules, pushing aspirational goals for players who enjoy m+ precisely because it doesnât have a strict time commitment further out of reach.
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