To be fair it would let non meta specs run their own key ad infintum with no risk of it lowering. However the keys they would have to actually execute to get the reward would be a the problem.
Oh you mean 19 on just one of the week. Iâm looking at senseâs rio and heâs 3658 only 3 19s. Ulda do be rough man.
Regardless, I just dont see how its acceptable for the worst case scenario to be the reality of every non-meta spec just so a few can play no voice pugs to title. I feel like being able to just play the game is much better for the community at large but maybe not? I dunno.
Well yes, it would let meta and non-metas players to run them as many times as they want. This would be a benefit, that I acknowledged, but would be quickly overshadowed by the negative consequences of keys not depleting that we discussed many times over the years.
Yes, pretty much wouldnât change much because being able to run things as many times as they want wouldnât overcome the advantages of class balancing and is the reason there is a meta.
For someone to get pushed out of the top .1% there have to be other people passing them for that to happen.
In order for any changes to make that happen wouldnât it just mean thereâs more people trying and more competition that wasnât there before?
Also, is the bar for season 4 just higher because thereâs just not many people playing M+ at all right now compared to say S1 where there were likely many more players at the lower end which would also lower the bar youâd have to pass to get the title (and increase the total number of people who get the title)?
If these changes encouraged more total participants wouldnât that also increase the total number of players who can get a title?
I think the lack of an aspiration goal, or that goal moving out of their reach, would deflate the morale of the playerbase a lot also.
Itâs a shame because regardless of what the playerbase at large thinks, non meta classes can currently pug title range keys. Itâs harder, unfortunately and needlessly, for sure, but itâs possible. My best key of the season, a 19 Fortified Neltharus, was done with an arms warrior (It was Bizentein, but stillâŚ).
Better class balance is the only solution that lets less meta specs push higher keys and get rewarded for doing so.
I just want S1 DF back, it was so much fun manâŚ
Some people really enjoy being powerful and will swap no matter what. I donât disagree. However there are a few folks that literally swap because they cannot pug keys on a class because pugs wont invite non-meta because it risks depleting the key further.
My monk friend is rolling aug/spriest next tier. Iâm gonna main mage next tier. We both are gonna keep the warrior / monk rolling but likely wont push on them. Just use them for raid.
I could see meta pugs getting sad cause they have to discord at the end of the day of their push and maybe that is a good enough reason for the community but I wouldnât agree. But Iâd assume if I played meta, I might have a different perspective.
Heh yeah I mean when you get into the household streamer names sure. Or even if you are just really, really good and make connections with really good people via raiding etc. But for most folks, it there really just isnt an avenue there. Iâm confident I could do 17s / 18s on most keys. Iâm not confident I would get title nor do I really care. I just really want to play the game on my warrior in hard content Iâve never done.
Yeah I dont disagree in theory but man in practice it just hasnât be the case. I feel like you should just quit or play meta before waiting on blizzard to balance. The past like 3 years there has been like 6 months of the game being relatively balance. I donât know much about Season 2 or 1 Slands but S3/S4 were abysmal as well.
Potentially, itâs hard to tell. The bar is definitely higher because of the removal of key levels 0-10 from the old system though. Thatâs extremely apparent.
It would, but to what degree is unclear. It also has the potential of just inflating score across the board as peopleâs keys rise by brute force at all levels.
Itâs not the using discord or not, pugs use discord now perfectly fine. Discord does not make a pug a premade. Itâs just the sheer levels of coordination required to pull off whatâs necessary to time those keys.
Title range becoming the domain of exclusively those in coordinated long term push groups would not be a good thing.
You realize this expansion is really good when youâre just exploiting high expectations in beta at your group.
You actually do not sound as a likeable person; just sounds like youâre venting or youâre whining for gold in Gen chat than you deserve it for trying to carry a piece of turd like yourself bro
Yeah I agree. There is definitely more planning and more to it than just discord. I just think discord is the main barrier for most folks in the pug community. People plan time in text but there definitely needs a bit more externals and such to live overlaps. I get it.
Title range becoming the domain of exclusively those in coordinated long term push groups would not be a good thing.
Yeah I think this is just where we differ on opinion which is okay. I would never expect to push glad or title without a group but I understand that for some that is their fun. I would argue that the percent of players affected by meta toxicity is far more than players affects by forming title groups and should be balance around that.
Happy Saturday to you too man lol
As someone whoâs pugged title 3 and of the last 4 seasons it has not felt like it, though this may be an EU / NA thing.
Itâs also not just external planning to live mechanics, though thatâs obviously part of it. Routing for timing 20s is insane and requires a lot of player coordination just to set up the pulls, let alone survive and clear them.
Is it though? Iâm curious what ya mean. I mean you kind of just go onto to rio/streams/discords and copy publicly available routes and copy what top teams do. Or maybe Iâm missing something. But for warrior I just go to Plka or nextback and yoink a route and check I have the necessary CCs and skips for it.
This caused me to dig into the nomenclature and from what I can see, blizzard uses downgrade to describe this process. Iâve been using âdepletedâ since the beginning but I like this term more.
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Three quick examples.
Algethar 20: Snapping lashers to guardian sentry and then to birds, pulling the whole area leading up to Vexamus as a single pull, optionally pulling echnoknights through the wall to play on Overgrown Ancient.
Neltharus: Pulling the Irontorch Commander miniboss on top of the Qualashi Blacksmith in both Fort and Tyra, pulling a total of 5 extra mobs onto Warlord Sargha periodically throughout the fight (Done by ranged).
And this isnât necessarily routing but the script of damage cds and trinkets needed to successfully burst down every single totem in brackenhide 19 onwards.
thatâs wild to read, thanks for sharing a glimpse into the apex gameplay
I have a literal spreadsheet on my second monitor with totem numbers and who will need to use what and when. Half way through the key everyone goes out and gets one of Belor, Beacon, Spindle, Grieftorch, or Desperate Invokerâs Codex, or in the case of the healer they get two.
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No they havenât, itâs bunch of defenders of bad behavior and a bunch of deflection.
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Iâve seen algethar snaps in streams / routes.
Irontorch Commander I typically pull with the lavabearer guys and 4 melt adds. Not sure what the blacksmiths do the commander, could you explain that? I have seen many routes where wardens / lava mancers are pull with last boss. I dont think Iâve seen more than one add pack but definitely one.
Yeah this cd rotation stuff, yeah definitely more planning for those higher keys in a group setting. I was more so curious about the routing stuff. But yes, I will admit a lot of rio / keystone guru doesnt show snapping tech well and need to do streams / practice that a lot.
Irontorch commander does massive group wide damage and a lot of fire puddles to dodge. The pull has him on top of the blacksmith who casts forgestomp (Another group wide AoE that often overlaps with the commander), Two irontorches (Frontals and interrupts), and 4 flares. At that key level commander AoE 1 shots without defensives, forgestomp overlaps require major cds, and ofc any flare or irontorch cast going off is a death. Typically you need to live 5 commander AoEs on fortified 19.
Thatâs more a case of what coordination the routing change demands, setup is much more centred around algethar, though 19 uldmaan tyra also has some insane setup pulls such as running not only into the second room at the start but either directly into the dwarves taking all the trash with you, or into the room before bromach and doing 21% trash count in a single pull.
Okay I thought the iron commander made the blacksmiths easier or vice versa, ya that sounds like suicide. I want to see this pull in action cause Iâve seen anyone pull that much.
Is this a 19 only strat? Looking at bobas routes he doesnât pull iron commander at all on fort.
https:// keystone .guru/route/neltharus/EjLPnrV/neltharus/2