No it’s all just in the name of efficiency. Less total pulls, better health distribution across the mobs in the pulls. Playing the commander on top of the blacksmith lets you skip the pack at the top of the stairs.
Almost every pull required to time a 20 is, except AV ofc, and maaaaaybe Brackenhide Tyra, but as discussed that one has its own challenges.
Yeah this wouldn’t be done on an 18. I didn’t need it for the fort 19 because we ran without an aug and had more damage, but I’d practiced / attempted it with other groups running an aug prior. It would be required were you to attempt a 20. Did need it for the 19 Tyra though.
Add another pack to pull 1 (2 plunderers and thaumaturge)
Take out one hunter from pull 5, add the 3 bonetenders and 1 trainee from pull 4.
Remove what’s left of pull 4.
Pull 6 is fine.
Remove pull 7 and pull 8.
Pull the commander into pull 9.
Combine pulls 10 and 11.
Pull 13 is fine, but drag it into pull 14 the second the bird is dead and the lavamancer shield is popped.
Do the same with pull 14, kill bird, pop shield, go boss.
Drag pull 15 onto the boss intermittently throughout, instead of doing it as its own pull.
Ehh, I think how pug centric the game has become is the root of a lot of problems that generate complaints and coverage.
In the lower levels sure, but pugs at title range already display coordination / competency others would call that of a premade as a baseline requirement to complete the content. What actual premades are doing to get the keys they’ve done timed is not something that should be required of anyone outside of pure prestige or the TGP / MDI.
Keystones should flat out not be a thing.
There should be no timer.
M+ should be content for normal people, not an esport.
If you don’t like timers or keystones, then stick to M0 or raiding.
I don’t watch MDI or any streamer, but I enjoy M+. Not as an “esport”, but as challenging content.
Or I can play a game not run by a washed up tryhard raider.
Are you a fan of Diablo 4? Before seasons, or season 1.
Then go do that, but don’t try and ruin a game mode that is keeping the game a float.
Same. And if anything I’m specifically concerned that the only tangible reward from pushing keys is drifting towards the domain of eSports level play due to the side effects of multiple other changes to the m+ system. This is the hardest season to get title we’ve ever had and I don’t think it would be healthy for it to get any harder as an unintended consequence of yet another change.
I’m anti eSports here it feels like.
Seems like in order to compensate for the removal of seasonal affixes, level squishing, and the change in affixes they had to inflate the base scaling and increase the amount of mechanics.
Eh, that would imply things have gotten harder over time when that’s not the case. SL → DF S3 were all pretty similar in terms of what title level keys asked of you when playing them, even if ofc key levels and score amounts aren’t comparable.
Only DF S4 has reached “Defensive every unavoidable damage event or die” levels, and the routing / coordination expectations are equally above what’s been previously necessary.
The biggest contributing factor looks to just be the vast reduction in people doing m+, especially at the low end now that that low end doesn’t exist.
I would also blame this on it being season 4, and guilds are taking the season off so it’s not inflated by raiders who are only there to farm gear.
Partly, certainly. But we’ve got fated to compare to as well.
Remember it doesn’t matter how many keys someone does, they enter the pool for calculations as soon as they do 1 key.
Hard to say if it’s because of the scaling and damage numbers that there’s less players running M+ when we saw huge drop offs due to SoD, Remix, Cata, and other non-blizzard game releases during the final stretch of the expansion.
You not liking something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist, M+ is a fine addition to the game and can be fun with the right group of people.
Indeed. We’ll get a clearer picture in TWW.
Honestly, I agree with pretty much everything you’ve stated.
The only real counter is something like “get good” or “play the meta then!”
That’s not fun or helping you progress on a character you have.
There’s already an NPC that will deplete your key if you so choose inside of Valdrakken (future cities included)
There really is no benefit to depleting a key, even the few benefits of risk/reward don’t make sense if you truly look at them.
However, every con you’ve put out is absolutely true. There’s a weird list of items that can deplete a key and only two of those are skill and uniformity of a group. Everything else is out of the player’s hands. On top of that, for some reason people love rage quitting now.
Tanks that get upset you have Dynamic Targeting on and accidentally cast/shoot something so they get upset you’re pulling for them, then they either leave as soon as that happens or shortly thereafter.
Sometimes you encounter a healer that can’t keep up with the healing required, regardless of what their IO says about them, or what progress they have on that character and it’s just a smart move to leave so you won’t waste time.
Sometimes there’s a DPS that’s just not pulling enough for unknown reasons so people just leave.
Regardless those are a skill issues, and people get annoyed and leave.
The real problems begin with disconnecting; not being able to play what class you want; not being creative or being able to learn at a higher difficulty.
For example,
You have someone disconnect and you guys keep trying to progress but after 5min, the DPS doesn’t comeback. - Depleted
or
It is the Tank/Healer that disconnect, you wait for 5min and everyone leaves. - Depleted
You try to join keys that are rank +6 to +9 (not even +10) and people may not invite you purely based on your class. - Didn’t even get to try
or
You do your own key and get it to where you need it, but it’s not a dungeon you need. Now you HAVE to try and join other dungeons of the same or higher level in order to change your own key from the NPC at the end of the M+. - Didn’t even get to try what you needed to run
With the new system for M+ and the difficulty of everything increasing so that a +10 is equal to what a +20 was there’s a larger gap in difficulty between keys.
If you’re in a group with friends, you can mess up as many times as you want until it’s called or you clear it. - pushed forward and forced, through social contract, everyone through it.
or
You attempt to try certain pulls differently because you can’t quite gauge how you should pull at this point, however you won’t complete the key. - Depleted for learning
or
You learn how to pull get the key back up but due to a mistake in your rotation or CDs you die and cause a wipe. Everyone leaves - Depleted
For what? Who does this benefit?
It’s certainly not Blizzard, it’s not the key holder… no one benefits.
I agree if you don’t time the key your only reward should be the Vault reward next week.
If it’s too much you just go to the current Major City and request a Key Depletion.
Honestly there aren’t any good counters in any of these threads, the only things that the same player in common to the threads mentions is:
You have to be out of your mind. I’m sure there are those few players who would push through to maximize their vaults, but they’d have to be insane!
Yeah, that’s what you’re supposed to do when trying to progress, sorry to give you a reality check.
These 2 reasons are the only rebuttals I’ve seen and they’re not very good.
There are others. You’re just ignoring them because they don’t fit your narrative.