A Proper Rework for Shadow is Needed, and my suggestions

Classes Priest
1

Based on the changes on the shadowlands alpha, Shadow currently looks to be in an absolutely terrible position. Losing all of our synergy from essences and azerite gear, and the only real addition is the return of shadow word: death (along with a fairly useless looking talent to improve it) and the laughably terrible looking surrender to madness rework #142.

Shadow needs a fundamental overhaul, this CANNOT be another BFA launch situation where we get nothing until the first content patch (I had to reroll warlock in order to raid for uldir). I have sat down and thought about how to fix the spec for the future while keeping the identity of the spec somewhat the same.

Firstly this has been suggested countless times since legion: Make Voidform a Cooldown. We know voidform is not getting removed, so please rework it to be a cooldown. How to do that I explain below.

Void Form: instant cast 20 sec duration, 2min cd: Void form grants you insanity every second, increasing until cancelled. note: voidform no longer increases haste or crit.

Void Bolt & Void Eruption: separate these into 2 abilities, These are now our insanity spenders, both abilities consume up to say 50 insanity when used and have no cooldown, damage done is based on the amount of sanity used (so at low sanity wouldn’t be worth casting)

These give the flexibility of being able to pool for on demand burst, also with the conversion of Voidform to a cooldown gives us the much needed controlled cooldown period. Also completely removes our massive ramp up period.

Also with Void Bolt having no CD and flexible usability the need for the double Mind Blast talent for the rotation is completely gone.

Insanity generation (aside from void bolt) will work the same as it is on live, obviously needing adjustment for balance.

With the removal of the old voidform ramp up the class will become infinitely easier to balance, no longer having to worry about balancing around potential huge VF stacks. Stats could be balanced so we aren’t locked into the fireflash or nothing gear mindset.

The next challenge is to rework the talent tree to accommodate the above changes, also trying to remove required talents.

Row 1:
Fortress of the Mind: should also increase the duration of mind flay by say 50% to work better with the incoming void bolt rank 2.
Shadowy Insight: Personal opinion but this needs a buff, maybe increases the dmg of the Mind Blast proc by 50% or something
Shadow Word: Void: Don’t think this needs changing, with suggested changes to void bolt this talent is no longer mandatory, but still a good option.

Row 2:
These utility talents are fairly good and aren’t affected by my suggestions so no comment other than please take Vampiric Embrace back off the GCD.

Row 3:
Another personal suggestion, Give us back Twist of Fate as baseline. It has been a required talent on every fight except on heavy cleave. Instead move Death and Madness to this row.

Row 4:
This row is just boring, ever since mind bomb became a disorient the options have been pretty much Last Word on interrupt fights and Psychic Horror on anything else.

Row 5:
Move Lingering Insanity to where Death and Madness was and change it to grant residual insanity after voidform ends instead of haste.

Row 6:
To replace the Lingering Insanity new talent: Devouring Plague Instant cast, 24 sec duration. Devouring plague increases the sanity generated against a target by 20% (only usable on one target at a time).
Void Torrent: now generates 50 insanity over its duration, Void Bolt & Void Eruption are castable during the channel.

Row 7
Complete overhaul of this row is required.
Legacy of the Void: The cooldown of Voidform is reduced by 1sec for every 10 insanity spent.
Dark Ascension: Chance when spending insanity to grand voidform for 5 sec (giving the same amount of insanity as the last 5 seconds of a regular voidform)
Surrender to Madness: Casting void spells in succession reduces their cost by 10 sanity, however if this reaches 4 stacks you will become completely insane. (become mind controlled and lose control of your character, attacking allies until they kill you) This would force you to switch between void bolt and void eruption to keep the stack under 4. For single target eg. bolt bolt bolt erupt bolt bolt bolt erupt…etc

_

I think I covered the pve side of the spec pretty well, I haven’t been involved with the pvp side of the game in a few expansions so don’t feel like I can give a solid opinion on that side of the spec

9 Likes
2

I maintain that blizz is probably not interested in maintaining an entire resource system just for one CD. I agree that VF should be made to be a talent/CD of some kind, but it’d have to be one that abandons insanity entirely. The more I think about it generally, the less I think VF has any place in the kit even as a CD…Blizz is attached to this idea of punishing SPs for ‘dipping to deeply into the void’, so any talent/CD would have to incur some meaningful penalty for use for the lore jockeys over there to be satisfied. Some thoughts there, maybe:

  • ‘VF’ just becomes a StM-like talent, but instead of insanity, you gain a stacking haste buff but take increasingly potent ticking damage until you or the target dies
  • VF is a standard damage-buff cooldown, but you take significant ticking damage for the duration. This isn’t great for solo play (none of these are).
  • StM/VF is a talented passive, where you get a stacking haste buff (with a reasonable cap) that diminishes when you stop using abilities. I don’t love this because ramp already sucks terribly.

It’s hard to reason about these ideas because I’m assuming a lot about blizz’s intentions, which are an utter mystery to me - VF is just a failed experiment as it stands.

1 Like
3

I love your suggestion and would literally burst in bliss if they take it however i would change 2 things

  1. voidform goes down to 1min cd rather than 2min because it simply generates resource and would give people who enjoy voidform mechanic a similar vibe

  2. Surrender to Madness becomes a passive that empowers voidform where you would get 1% haste every second but at the end you would take damage equal to the damage you inflict up to 90% of your health over 20 second

EDIT: also its very important to have more spenders then simply Void bolt and Void eruption.

1 Like
4

I think Voidform being a CD is great. It drops you into Voidform but instead of generating insanity using your abilities is like using up that void energy and draining away the Insanity. It lasts for maximum of 20 seconds but only if you keep casting during it to drain the insanity as fast as possible until you “give in” too it and it gives you a debuff that doesn’t let you cast it for the next 2 minutes like the CD says. IF you manage to make it last for 20 seconds, don’t make it easy but don’t make it hard, there needs to be some decision making and proper timing too the ability, that your DoT damage or MB damage is increased by a percentage for a duration(I have no idea what duration wouldn’t be broken, it would have to be short enough to make you want to use Voidform again on CD to get back into that, but long enough to make you really want the reward of being able to last the full 20 seconds)

5

i strongly disagree with you because it still has voidform as the main core mechanic. the whole spending all insanity in 20sec is pretty much a worse version of what we have right now.

1 Like
6

The thrill of voidform is building it- as it pushes back on you it’s very easy to get caught up in this fantasy. It also has the ‘untameness’ about it; feels awesome to hit a 58 stack earlier today. A CD is boring af and if I wanted a CD I would just play the million other specs in the game that give us that already.

Other specs with CDs have predictable qualities and you have to look at logs later to see how you did. Shadow? You feel directly how well you perform, no other spec offers that.

Of the people I talk to that favor voidform when correctly cared for (not like 8.0); voidform CD ruins why we like it to begin with.

7

This is where I strongly disagree. It’s not ‘easy’ to get caught up in the fantasy because of how inconvenient the gameplay is - I’m not ‘losing my sanity’, I’m stressing about a bar being full or not - and the bar determines whether or not my DPS is average-to-below-average or if I’m an absolute gimp. There is no “thrill” in ramping up, it’s inherently unsatisfying - not least of which for how situationally difficult and/or difficult to manage ramp is anyway. It’s TEDIOUS, not immersive.

2 Likes
8

i strongly disagree with you because it still has voidform as the main core mechanic. the whole spending all insanity in 20sec is pretty much a worse version of what we have right now.

You strongly disagree but your post in the other thread is basically what I suggested?

9

This is my Voidform wishlist:

Voidform
Activated by casting Void Eruption. Twists your Shadowform with the powers of the Void, increasing spell damage you deal by 20%, reducing the cooldown on Mind Blast by 1.5 sec, and granting an additional 2% Haste every for every 5 Insanity below maximum.

Your insanity drains by 5 every second, you cannot gain insanity while in Voidform.

Voidform now has a set duration with faster scaling. Gameplay shifts from maintaining a really long Voidform *and feeling terrible if you can’t, to getting the most out of every Voidform…just like every other cooldown in the game.

Now having to run out of range for mechanics right as you enter Voidform isn’t nearly as punishing if you can get back to the mob relatively quickly, as you still get the most valuable part of Voidform.

You also don’t have to balance around that one Godly player with 20 ping who can reach 80 stacks, since it removes the exponential scaling that has made Voidform impossible to balance.

Talent Changes:
Lvl 15:

Mind Blast now has a base 2 Charges

Shadow Word: Void replaced with Mind Spike*
*Balance as needed, I never really liked/used it so I am not one to suggest correct implementation.

Lvl 30:

San’layn
Now also grants 10% increased passive movement speed.

Intangibility
Now also grants 40% increased movement speed during dispertion.

Body and souls is an on demand movespeed increase, but you ALSO get the shield from PW:S. not to mention it is the ONLY movement speen option for the entire spec. Some mobility/movement speed needs to be added to the other 2 talents for them to be competetive, though much less potent/accesible than Body and Soul.

Lvl 60:

Last Word
Reduces the cooldown of Silence by 15 seconds, and the Silence duration is increased by 2 seconds against non-players

Mind Bomb is a stun again…It never should have been changed

Lvl75:

Shadow Word: Death is now baseline

Death and Madness
If Shadow Word: Death is used on a target below 20% health, gain 40 insanity, if you are in Voidform, Shadow Word: Death instead deals Double damage. (including to yourself)

Shadow Crash cooldown increased to 30 seconds, damage increased by 50%.
This is to have it work around the 20 second Voidform and to increase AOE Burst on pulls.

Lvl 90:

Lingering Insanity
You remain in Voidform with for 5 seconds after reaching 0 insanity

Mindbender and Shadowfiend
Haste bonus from Voidform is doubled when applying to Mindbender and Shodwfiend.
Now you can choose to use them to get into voidforms faster or for dps during Voidform. There would be balance needed on this since it’s currently balanced around stupidly high Voidform stack atm.

Void Torrent
Generates 40 Insanity
Channel a torrent of void energy into the target, dealing [ 360% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage over 4 sec.

Insanity does not drain during this channel.

Lvl 100:

Legacy of the Void remains unchanged as entering early just means faster Voidform and you skip the really low haste phase

Dark Ascension
Immediately activates a new Voidform and sets your Insanity to 50, then releases an explosive blast of pure void energy, causing [ 190% of Spell Power ] Shadow damage to all enemies within 10 yds of your target.

Insanity does not drain for 5 seconds after casting Dark Ascension

Surrender to Madness
Until the end of your next Voidform your Max Insanity is increased by 150 and you can cast while moving. Enter Voidform and Instantly Gain 250 Insanity. If you are in combat when Voidform ends you become consumed by the Void and die.

Too many of our talents are just too weak, or the other ones in the row outdhine them by too much. Our talents need to be more interesting.

NOTE: Any Ideas expressed in thispostcan be freely taken and used by Blizzards Priest Development Team without any attribution, just make Priest not suck anymore please..

1 Like
10

no not you I love your suggestion I have stated that below your suggestion with my comments. I was talking about Eloreith suggestion. (below)

11

OMG thank you louder for the people in the back. Voidform is so stressful and it triggers my anxiety hardcore
#removevoidform

12

If you don’t like the gameplay that vf offers why don’t you play a mage or a lock? I started playing Spriest at 8.3 because it’s very different from playing other range classes, and I LOVE it. IF you want to see big numbers on your screen you just need to play a destro lock . or a fire mage or a MM hunter. I am fully aware the flaws of Spriest but I don’t think its play style is the problem.

1 Like
13

My hope is that is they tone down the burst AOE fest that dots will actually have a chance to be impactful in dungeons again.

SPriest is unique and I’m drawn to classes without major cooldowns like assassin rogue or resto Druid, but ramp up is currently punished when trash does so quickly.

14

Yeah. Here’s the rub though. A lot of people have played this class for 15+ years. I can only chalk it up to extreme ego (or more likely a desire to make money for Blizzard with those $60.00 leveling boosts) that drives any developer to take any class that has been fairly solid in play-style for the most part, and then instead of playing to it’s strengths; elect to redesign a class simply because that specific developer thinks “It’s too much like Aff. Lock.”

It was really a class move and that Developer should be ashamed of themselves. Not only did they fail to deliver or acknowledge their screw up for 2 expansions (including a nerf because S2M broke in Emerald Dream Content, which player Beta Testing warned them of), but then they also somehow managed in some macabre way to piss off and crap on Priest players time-investment by conducting the afore-mentioned nerfs, but then never bothering to fix the class.

Was that enough though? No. Not by a long shot. Then they took out Mass Hysteria, and Void Tendrils (but brought it back as an Azerite Trait that any class can use. So much for being ‘broken and too much’ lol). Oh and then they gutted Priests even further for BFA for reasons (getting too close to Mage in DPS potential likely), and refused to give a single Glyph to Shadow in the Old God Patch (contrast that to 7 new Glyphs for Frost Mage in 8.2’s Azshara patch). Now we have someone who started playing in 8.3 telling them “reroll”?

No. You re-roll. If Blizzard Developers have such a love for the Voidform concept, maybe they should make a NEW Class like say Dark Ranger or Necromancer; that uses it as a “feature” instead of deleting people’s Shadow Priest and replacing it with the “Insanity” Priest.

Priests didn’t ask for it and they don’t need exploratory game design created to justify a paycheck.

People hate this polished pile of cow-dung, and those people will keep pointing out how trash it is, as well as the extreme bias Blizzard shows to other classes like Mages. You know why? Because it’s literally one’s only recourse until they finally relent and repair what they screwed up. Then those players will be content again and we will not need to come to the forums and complain. I mean hell, you think that players like having to gripe about this?

10 Likes
15

My understanding is Playstyle=Mechanic. I would love to hear what you think the flaws of Spriest is now and how to fix them.

My personal opinion is that ramp up mechanic does not work and it’s broken because it rotates around haste which is easily and strongly impacted by haste.

why should I reroll after maining my priest for years just because you showed up a couple of months ago and you like it?

The mechanic is broken but Blizz is too lazy to fix it.

7 Likes
17

I only started to play shadow in 8.3 because it’s only a proper spec after having the patches of az gear and essences. i know its base design has critical flaws but i think it only needs proper attention to make VF feel right. And making it an aff lock 2.0 will only kill the fun. I main priest as well, but as a healer. I used to do all the contents as disc or holy but the redesign of shadow at legion made me give shadow a chance. I feel playing shadow is more fun now than it was during MOP or other expansion because holy&disc were the always the “funner” specs before legion.

1 Like
18

I understand where you’re coming from. you have every right to enjoy whatever you want to enjoy. My only issue is current and alpha voidform. it is not fun and does not work. If Blizz made the voidform machanic into WoD Demo lock ( remove ramp up mechanic, put a fixed drain rate, once in voidform your abilities change into spenders) I would totally love to play it.

I don’t necessarily have an issue with voidform just current/alpha voidform and that’s because of ramp up mechanics.

1 Like
19

I still don’t get the afflock 2.0 comparisons, like if I watch wod SP gameplay side by side with affli I just don’t see it.

9 Likes
20

Firstly, I still wand Void Form axed and tossed out like the rubbish it is.

However, in another attempt to fix it. What about this.

From what I understand about the 8.3 void stuff in the capital cities. (I haven’t done it myself cause I just dont have the drive to get into the game again atm) But you are going insane the longer you stay there correct? Not sure if that’s a sanity meter going down or an insanity meter going up. But lets apply this to Void Form.

Instead of your insanity constantly draining away faster and faster. What if instead your hard hitting abilities like Void Bolt still gave you insanity but the goal isn’t to get more and more insanity to stay in void form longer, its to prevent yourself from going insane the longer you can.

So it would work like this.

Void Form
1 Min CD
Gains access to Void Spells.
Upon entering Void Form, accumulate 5 insanity per sec. Upon reaching 100 insanity, you are forced out. Your Void spells cause you to gain insanity 20% faster. Reduces the CD of Void form by 1 sec per 1 sec while in Void Form.

So what this accomplishes is making you think if you want to use your void spells on this trash pack then there is a cost. Or you can hold off a bit and use them on next trash pack. This gives you control on whether you want to go crazy and burst damage but get tosses out of Void Form faster. Or you can stall out the Void Form for a while by holding back your burst. If you stall it, you are rewarded by having another go at Void Form quicker.

Edit:

Here is how I would apply this if we had Shadow Orbs as a primary mechanic and Void Form is just a talent replacement play style.

Void Form
Costs 5 orbs
Gains access to Void Spells.
Upon entering Void Form, accumulate 10 insanity per sec. Upon reaching 100 insanity, you are forced out. Each Void spell cast will cause 20% faster accumulation (Stacking). You are not able to generate Shadow Orbs while in Void Form

21

I think the whole insanity meter running out is more like you a psychotic breakdown and then you calm down. so you generate insanity then become insane by entering voidform but eventually regain sanity.

isn’t that what I basically suggested just switch it form draining to accumulating. Also what would we do outside voidform and how does it affect it. there needs to be an interaction between the 2 phases otherwise its clunky.