Yeah, that was my entire point. Also it’s no secret that WoW was changed slowly but surely after the merger, and not for the better. While Activision may arguably not have anything to do with the development of games (which we’ve heard otherwise, and I’ve linked you those in the past on this same topic), the culture of Blizzard drastically changed for both player and employee alike in the following years of the merger.
You don’t out dps it casually. I just checked the logs and the only bosses you out DPS the ret pally in question on is Razorgore (20 second fight based entirely off of crits), Chromaggus (Literal RNG the fight, and he has no Holy Vulnerability) and Nef. With almost a tie on flamegor.
Edit: To add Having 2 runs of BWL also isn’t enough to fit an average of your dps properly.
You think so? Is that Ret Paladin doing everything they can to out-DPS it? I suppose you’re right, he definitely out-DPSes me on specific fights for a multitude of reasons. Then again, I’m not playing the optimal spec, not flasking, missing key pieces of gear (still have a lot of ZG blues and even a terrible green wand), and on some fights I didn’t have the GFPPs which I should have to not get pushback. I did use both spellpower consumes and had most world buffs, with the exception of songflower on one raid night and I think dragonslayer or ZG as well.
As I said, I’m a largely casual player and just started raiding on this to fill in spots for one of our raid teams.
Which Ret Pally are you using as reference?
Purple - Yellow. Which is the equivilent of blue to purple for most other classes as Ret pallies have less players and less people per capita trying to get good dps.
True, but that also doubles that there’s a lot more players who are going full on that are ranking higher. The raw DPS values matter more, which puts me at a mediocre level - but that’s honestly fine for now. I wonder what his gear is like, but if I had better gear overall I would hope I’d be better equipped.
I’m basically largely picking up scraps which suits me fine. I’ve already said I care more about looks (full Nemesis largely) over stats, and I don’t think my guild minds too much. It’d be nice if my wand dropped from Strat though.
I actually feel pity for people who feel the need to make up false motivations and then assign blame to others, while plotting to wreck their class.
I enjoyed spending a sunday farming mcp.
I guess you guys are the same ones who are trying to convince people in GD that casuals will be happier pretending to RP all the time in shadowlands so devs won’t have to create content for them.
Or is your pathetic alt warrior looking for a tank position after the druids you hate so much become non-viable?
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Yup. I don’t grab world buffs I don’t want. Especially Songflowers, I never get those.
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If it forever had the 50% haste it becomes stronger than might of menethil.
Even though the base damage is low, the haste makes it scale in a way that no other weapon can keep up with. The base weapon damage is one of the least important stats on it.
MCP retains the full 2.0 speed attack power scaling while swinging at 1.33 speeds (or 1.29 if counterweighted).
This means that you are getting your full attack power scaling 50% more often than you would be otherwise.
So let’s look at a character with 2000 AP (+143 weapon dps) using both a MoM and MCP.
MoM 289 - 435 damage, 3.8 speed.
Average damage without AP: 362
Average damage with AP: 905
Autoattack dps: 238
(I’m going to ignore crit, armor, miss chance, etc, as they affect both MoM and MCP equally)
MCP 46 - 70, 2.0 speed (1.33 hasted)
Average damage without AP: 58
Average damage with AP: 344
Dps (unhasted): 171
DPS (active hasted): 258.6
Now, as you can see here, even with just 2000 AP, which is very achievable, MCP does about 10% more dps than MoM when autoattacking. The only thing that would get MoM back in the lead would be instant attacks that used weapon damage, but there aren’t many of those in the game.
Warriors dont have them, save slam, but MCP will generate more rage than MoM for other abilities. In addition, the MCP active makes the flurry talent 50% stronger due to how haste stacks multiplicatively.
Ret Paladins have seal of command, which doubly prefers slow weapons for proc chance and weapon damage, but even we still can use MCP to a greater effect than MoM due to the haste still causing 50% more SoC hits than we would normally expect to get in that hasted time (and the autoattack damage ends up higher than MoM anyway, which is a larger portion of our DPS).
Overall, MCP was just very poorly designed, and yes, the level 39 mace is the undisputed strongest 2h weapon in the game. Had blizzard not moved to a rating system in TBC, it likely would have continued to be the strongest 2h until blizzard directly nerfed it. 50% haste passively is impossible to beat by a higher base dps, as the MCP’s 50% better AP scaling WILL surpass it at some point, and that point is far earlier than you’d expect.
bro manual crow pummer is for bear. In cat i do 70 % shreed damage . I did 499 dps on my last boss . without dmt buff.
WAKE UP !
you dont havent have druid. I was gonna work you argument then realize its all meaningless you havent test it yourself your just repeating what someone already said. 499 dps without without dmt buff bru .
bandwagon we following a bandwagon
ye bro tell 'em, cat durid dont need pummer 4 fite
no pummer zone
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its busted on bear there is no doubt since maul is most the time enough to take the aggro of a deep proc tank without windseeker but with mcp it make maul way to often but still dodge dodge u have lost aggro to a lock.
Mcp mcp is only something you need emergency . I tanked a lot of time just my maul with my nice +3 attack speed . =D and it was enough. Its easy when you realize were your power is.
mcp isn’t even that hard to farm its right at the back door of the instance and its a high drop rate it would be similar to doing the arena runs but with a boss that dies really freaking fast and can be easily soloed do 15 lockouts and you should have like 5 at least unless you get real unlucky
3 is the most i would ever bring to tank . I would never use that for cat ever .
We have shamy here , Shamy have ability call windfury so when you get out of form and you auto attack you automatically winfury and sometime you get 2k 1.5 damage .
I don’t know about alliance but windfury is busted and if you get out of form hit with ur 1.8 attack speed weapon lv 30 . Your not using what op
THAT ALL THERE IS TO IT, THERE IT IS
It really depends on what you consider “decent.”
For example, here is my MC page from warcraftlogs https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/sulfuras/smeet#zone=1000
Most of the values there put me above the majority of other class’ averages. Sure, it’s still behind rogues/warriors, but every class is, so that’s not a particularly compelling argument unless you are advocating to also not ever bring locks, mages, hunters beyond tranq needs, etc…
I’m also not really going all out on damage in MC. I snag an ony buff, a ZG buff, and basic elixirs (mongoose, giants, greater arcane). I could push further with DMT buffs, a flask, roids, chilli, winterspring consumables, darkmoon faire buff… I’m certainly not an example of ret pally top potential.
Sure, rets need gear support, but we aren’t garbage tier when we get it. We just aren’t warriors. Upside though? I can swap gear and be a 95% effective healer if a fight calls for it, or if the raid is struggling to fill the healer slots that night. The 21 holy, 30 ret spec is a really versatile setup for a raiding ret pally.
Yeah, we don’t have that. Ally druids don’t get large bursts outside of cat form from windfury, so they instead get the 50% haste when in cat form, as it is the strongest thing available to them.
Is it required to dps? No, but it is still the best thing around.
I guess i cannot say for alliance so i will stay my case there
So you fear backlash from a virtual guild for voicing your opinions on a video game forum under your main character.
Big, big, BIG yikes from me dude.
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You’d probably save time in the long run leveling a warrior to 60 >:)
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That’s a pretty good point, I think. If you have 21 points in Holy, that’s enough to be competitive as a healer.
Yeah, I suppose the way I think of “decent,” is that you won’t have your soul feel crushed by the rewards for putting in effort. If you know the trade offs for playing a class a certain way, and you’re OK with that, then cool.
Is that correct? If so, then it would be interesting to consider whether having the ability to heal in a pinch is worth the trade-off of having a 96% parser doing roughly 50% of the damage of another class.