I was kind of going for snotty. But resentful? Nah.
There’s so many layers of cringe to this guy lol.
Imagine acting so tough on the internet yet so oddly afraid of outing your main characters name you have to hide behind an alt.
Like dude, that’s some next level cringe right there.
No, they should have to earn things legitimately by playing the game for massive amounts of time- as Vanilla WoW was intended to be, as we’ve seen by it taking 18+h/day to get rank 14 gear it was always expected you’d spend thousands of hours to get things.
And the ranking system proves they intend players to play long day for months straight without breaks.
Again, as long as we have an 18h/day, 3-4 month rank 14 grind- the system not letting players play 6 hours on a saturday when they have time off work is a glaring inconsistency that has made a common pve activity multiple times more restricted than the major pvp activity.
You can’t compare playing the game for a long time to walking through walls, that’s such a dishonest comparison because you’re trying to make a legitimate activity- doing dungeons- on the same level as something that’s obviously cheating- walking through walls.
And here’s the thing- doing dungeons isn’t exploiting. You aren’t perfectly fine up to 30 dungeons, then 31 you become a cheater. Walking through walls, creating gear out of nothing, becoming invulnerable- those are all exploits, and they’re exploits if you do them one time or a million times. That’s the thing about exploits- they’re exploits regardless of if you do them a little bit or a lot.
Encouraging compulsive gambling like in OW/HotS, or making gear more difficult to achieve and take even longer to grind for in order to sell it for real money or MTs like in Diablo 3/Destiny 2 is not only not enjoyable for players, it’s extremely unhealthy for them.
Yeah, players don’t always do what’s best for themselves- but developers like Blizzard actively do what’s worst for the player whenever it seems like they can make a bit more money.
It’s only cheating because Blizzard declares it to be so and makes it impossible without a hack. Just like Blizzard made running more than 30 instances impossible without a hack.
Point is, this limitation is just one of many that developers put into their games, and for the vast majority of those, they do so with good reason. Because otherwise, players would almost certainly ruin their own game experience. So people shouldn’t act so shocked at Blizzard doing something like this and act like Blizzard doesn’t have the right to do so. Developers do things like this all the time. You adjust and move on.
Now you may disagree with the change, and that’s fine. I disagree with a lot of things that Blizzard has done over the years. But that’s different than saying that I am entitled to be able to do anything I want to do, which is a sentiment that I keep seeing. No, you are not.
Again, you keep repeating this lie and ignoring all the evidence that Blizz constantly does things that are horrible for players on purpose, and is leaving in systems that are objectively considerably worse for players enjoyment/health than running dungeons for a few hours.
Suddenly, 15 years after this game came out, they made something that’s never been an exploit limited, without actually calling it an exploit or ever punishing something for running too many dungeons in a day because it’s not an exploit.
Again, and I know you are going to ignore this since that’s what you do- an exploit is an exploit the first time you do it, not the 31st time. Wall hacking is an exploit the first time you do it, it’s an obvious exploit and Blizz has made it clear they consider it an exploit. It’s an exploit in every game, and it’s one that doesn’t need to be explained.
Running dungeons a lot is the point of this game, saying that doing it 30 times is fine, but 31 times is exploiting is completely arbitrary. Blizz hasn’t declared that an exploit, in their most recent point they don’t mention banning anyone that did too many dungeons, and if you explained to someone in a different game that ‘doing too many dungeons in WoW is considered cheating now’, they’d both be surprised and unable to guess the number- because it’s completely arbitrary.
That and it goes against the spirit of Vanilla- the reason these items have such low drop rates is because they wanted players to run these dungeons hundreds, even thousands of times.
No, I don’t think that’s the case at all, players accepted the rules and restrictions of Vanilla WoW, warts and all.
A restriction was 5 instances an hour- but 30 dungeons per day was not a restriction. I don’t think its too much to believe we can do anything we want within the rules of Vanilla WoW- and while something like a wall or jump exploit may be considered an obvious exploit, running a bunch of dungeons in a day isn’t.
If it were, back in Vanilla they wouldn’t have joked about a 40 dungeon per day cap they would have put it into the game.
I think you misunderstand what the problem here is. Yes, I disagree with the change, but I can accept it if their reasoning is clear and the goal is met.
And that’s where I have a problem. They originally said ‘automated an exploitative behaviour’ right after massive streamer/forum outcry about bots everywhere, and videos about ZG fly hacking. To anyone that would make it seems like the change is meant to address bots and fly hacking- and that they did it right with a bot banwave announcement even makes it more clear they mean bots.
But that’s the problem- this change obviously doesn’t stop fly hacking. Think about that- if instead of putting up walls to prevent WSG jump exploits or the AV backdooring they limited you to 10 BGs per day, you’d naturally question how that would fix the problem, because it obviously wouldn’t.
And this change obviously does nothing to reduce bots or fix fly hacks.
So instead, we get a bunch of people like yourself making up reasons why Blizz did this with no source- they’ve never called running 31 dungeons a day an exploit, nor punished someone for doing it, and let us do so for 15+ years now without a word. So, IF suddenly they considered it to be an exploit.
They should have said- ‘we limited you to 30 dungeons because we feel running too many dungeons a day is an exploit’. I’d disagree with that of course, but the purpose is clear and their solution does fix what they consider a problem. Same if they’d said it was to reduce gold/items being earned by players doing dungeons.
I wouldn’t agree with the change itself, or the reasoning- but I couldn’t argue their reasoning wasn’t clear or honest.
Because they implied it’s exploits/botting though, and the change fixes neither, they’ve lied about their reasoning and put out a change that is clearly not going to do what they’ve led us to believe they want it to do.
Which is a problem in two ways. First of all it does mean that everyone is being punished as a result of limits that won’t actually achieve their goal. And second, it means Blizz is doing something ineffective and really does need to be made aware of that.
It’s bad to push forward an unpopular change, of course they’ll get flack for that. But pushing in an unpopular change and lying about the reasoning absolutely deserves to receive this level of scorn.
So to sum up all that, you don’t agree with the change, and you don’t think they communicated it very well. That’s fair.
But I would disagree that they lied about it. Here’s what they said, and all that they said…
“As part of our ongoing efforts to eliminate exploitative and automated gameplay…”
Bots were farming instances 24/7. They can’t do that anymore. Sure, they can increase the number of bots across servers, with each of them now farming only a partial day. But it’s not implausible that this change will have at least some positive effect on reducing bot behavior, and nobody has any proof to the contrary.
I doubt the botters were happy or indifferent about this change. Most of them were probably pretty pissed, which is a good thing. They now have to completely change up what they were doing. And Blizzard has said that it only affects a handful of legitimate players, so it’s also plausible that they honestly felt that pissing off a tiny number of fanatical players was worth it.
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Botters tend to have multiple accounts. If you were to have 4 accounts, you could previously do 480 dungeons a day, maybe on one server, maybe on four. Now, with those same four accounts, you can still do 480 dungeons per day- you’d have to have 4 servers sure, but they don’t care if they sell gold on one server or the other, it’s all money in their pocket.
There’s a mild, one time investment of now needing 4 level 60s per account, one on each server- that’s what, a few days of no effort?
Because that’s what it is- even if they level on new servers, they’re bots, it isn’t any more work for them. They do what any company does when it costs more to set something up- increase the price of their product.
And now, legit players are providing fewer items and less gold because they’re also limited- but legit players are limited to 6 hours a day, not 24 hours like bots, which in turn makes bots able to have more market share and increase prices.
From an economic standpoint, this creates a barrier to entry- that can increase their own costs, but, if it reduces other entrants enough it also allows greater monopolistic control by those that stay in, which ends up making botting more profitable.
Blizz also said they’d be redoing WCIII with dynamic cutscenes and even showed us the redone Stratholme scene. Still waiting on the WCIII they promised.
It’s not implausible, yes- but it’s also not implausible that bots will easily bypass and even benefit from this change, and there’s no proof this doesn’t benefit bots either. The problem is the workaround is easy, it doesn’t reduce the amount of time a bot can farm at all, and the solution to the problem bots face is just to bot even more.
I find it hard to have confidence in Blizz’s ability to combat bots when the way to bypass their fix is to bot.
I don’t know. You tell me. I’m not a botter and don’t know any botters. And if you aren’t and don’t, either, then you’re just speculating.
So by your own admission, this reduces the number of bots, which I think was Blizzard’s goal, right? As for the latter, what you’re saying is like saying that the DEA shouldn’t arrest drug dealers because it just increases the price of drugs. This is true. But it also decreases its supply and use.
Again, you may disagree with Blizzard’s approach, just like many disagree with the approach used in the war on drugs, but you can’t argue that both don’t reduce the undesirable behavior.
Yeah… unfortunately if it were simply an unlimited use item with that effect it would be unambiguously the best 2h in the game.
Sorry what? Did you seriously just say that?
I’m not speculating that a bot can bot its way to max level in a few days, and I don’t need to be a bot to know a bot can do that. That’s literally what a bot does.
Are you intentionally being dense here?
If bots consider doing nothing on four servers to be more effort than doing nothing on one server, sure- it would. But that’s a big if, and it requires the white knights to be right in that it does cost significantly more, enough to make bots not profitable, that doing nothing for a longer period of time would actually dissuade people.
Theoretically- yes, it could cause a barrier to entry. Realistically? No, I don’t think a bot is going to care if they have to do nothing a little longer.
Think about it this way. If you were told you could after two days start making $100 a day for doing literally nothing, or after eight days could start making $100 a day for doing nothing, of course the first would be more ideal.
You’d pick the first right? I mean, I would.
But lets say suddenly option one was not available. Would you suddenly look at option two, making money for doing nothing but after a few more days- and say no thanks?
Oh they should arrest dealers and destroy illegal drugs, much like Blizz should ban bots. I’ve never said Blizz shouldn’t be banning bots, frankly I think they should.
This change is more like putting a curfew of 8pm-7am on the city, saying ‘well why would you even need to be out past 8pm if you are not a drug dealer?’, and then claiming that everyone previously out past 8pm must have been a criminal.
I would say no to this change, imagine if druids used mcp in every duel, on every trash mob, and everything than it would be game breaking OP. Let’s say you put a CD on it, than druids who use multiple stacks or use it every boss would be nerfed hard basically making druids no longer able to main tank even in max gear.
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See what I mean about optimization memes
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Do you go into raids with flasks and/or world buffs?
If you do, just don’t. You don’t need them. It’s the same argument. MCP is an “on demand” buff that shows one’s willingness to do as much as they can to pull their weight and justify their raid spot.
Is it required? No. Is it strongly recommended? You bet it is.
It’s not just strongly recommended, Feral just flat out doesn’t work without it.
Guild rule to not post on mains
That depends on which spec, I suppose.
I look at Feral DPS, as that’s what I played, and while it definitely helps it’s certainly not required.
Feral Tanking, something I didn’t do much of, I can absolutely see it. When I was tanking I used it because I felt my gear wasn’t good enough to keep up with my much higher geared guild mates (I was still 100% pre-bis while most of my guild was full raid geared) so I can’t say it’s something I gave much thought at the time. Since Maul replaces auto attacks and MCP increases auto attack speed I can definitely see it.
Even for Feral DPS, it makes quite a large difference in terms of damage. It’s the only way your DPS is anywhere near competitive - otherwise you’re way too far behind and no better than a Ret Paladin, Balance Druid, Enhancement Shaman, etc. While many raids don’t have a problem with it, it can be a sore spot when it comes to harder raids.
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Aye, that’s what I was saying before. It’s not required - you can DPS without it, you’re just sacrificing a portion of your DPS - but, in order to justify bringing you, it’s strongly recommended otherwise why not just bring another Warrior or Rogue or Mage.
As you said, many raids don’t have a problem with it hence why I say for DPS it’s not a requirement. But it is just like other consumeables and world buffs; you’re showing your raid that you are willing to do what it takes to pull your weight.
tl;dr just to simplify what my actual position is: I completely agree with you.
In the same way, it’s not required to bother getting gear at all, nor to show up to raids when you know you won’t get loot. There’s a community aspect that is extremely important to raiding, guilds, and Classic overall that relies on people helping each other and doing your part is part of that. I understand you agree with me, but wording it that it’s just recommended is disingenuous because a lot of raids will not like someone who isn’t willing to put forth the effort to warrant their spot - regardless if they’re a top tier spec or not.
That’s why it’s important to talk to your raid and figure out what is required.
By default, the item isn’t required, it’s strongly recommended. If your raid says they want you to get it, at that point it’s required. It’s somewhat contextual.
I disagree with anyone who says it should be unique or Druids shouldn’t bother. Any Druid worth their salt should absolutely take the time to farm MCP. That said, I don’t agree with saying that it’s required which gives the impression that every druid needs to get it 100% for every raid.