I don’t know if I believe that. What we expect from a game is just much different now. It won’t matter what they do to LFG or any other kind of que system. The time for long and grindy dungeons has passed. We’ve moved on from it. Some people will go back, but most won’t. The majority of people probably see that as an improvement.
I disagree, I think the game moved away and we adapted.
When I played Classic for first few months, I quite enjoyed just being there in the world, leveling 3 characters, doing dungeons, getting professions up.
I still want an MMORPG where world feels alive and you can interact with people and such, none that fit that just yet.
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I think what I’m aiming for is mythic BFA islands, (or maybe warfronts?) that are legitimately challenging, and have smart ai that changes encounters and routes.
What makes M+ not fun for me is
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the gogogo mentality doesnt let me chat and laugh with my friends, discord is sweaty and silent
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the route is basically the same every single time, minus a few insignificant changes. Prideful makes this especially bad, because you need to line it up with bosses
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lack of change. Lack of novelty. Lack of creative thinking required.
Bfa islands had smart ai, they were just horribly weak and not enough of a challenge. Imagine a dungeon full of smart AI.
Not torghast, not s raid, an actually smart dungeon where your run is different.
I like to know from Blizzard what percentage players are on retail vs classic; especially, when TBC is out soon because they should have enough data from classic to tell us participation of dungeon activity against retail.
Either way, it’s tough going back. LFG, LFD, and LFR are just too convenient. Going back and spamming trade chat for groups just isn’t that appealing to me. Fortunately for you, I’d imagine that TBC will be pretty popular. I think it was the best that WoW ever was, but even as someone that loved it, I don’t think I’m going back.
Yeah it is, because when they removed titanforging and nerfed loot, people got upset. It was right thing to do, but people are still upset (minus m+ revolving around great vault, hate that) because they got used to those.
People got too used to this now, I wish they’d make a 2nd mmorpg, with lower quality graphics, which was just like second game, and made in fashion of first 2-3 expansions, focusing mostly on the world, story and dungeons.
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Please explain what the RPG elements are in a dungeon? Someone is a fire mage so they use fire spells…?
Unpopular opinion I know, but I really wish that skips weren’t a part of M+ strats. It doesn’t add anything and just causes frustration when pugging thanks to how many players have the spatial awareness of a soggy potato and pull things.
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Someone is a Demon Hunter so they can find the Demon. (Court of Stars)
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inst this just 5 man raiding ?
Sure, but people looking for it to rain loot probably aren’t going to be happy in TBC either. Looking back on it, TBC was really grindy. I’m sure some people are going to enjoy having 25 world quests to do. I just don’t think it will be so many people that it influences the direction that retail goes in.
Prot Pally Titanguard would glow in the group of the demon in there as well, I enjoyed that RPG element of it; especially, the profession bonus you got from that dungeon.
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Blackrock Depths had a ton of rpg elements!
It didn’t really work…but they were there.
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I’m a huge fan of the idea of creating a parallel M+ system that simply removes the timer. I think at a minimum there should be an extreme timer, such as no run taking longer than 3 hours.
I don’t think it needs to be radically different in style. Just simply remove the oppressive timer. Speed can still be used as a measurement of success. A faster run is simply better. There’s no argument about that. But because my run was 1 minute past the timer, I failed? Kind of silly.
Doubtful they’ll actually support a parallel system in-place, however.
Funny how you say that now, did you think it was really grindy back then when you were playing it? Are you used to a different time now whereas back then you were you used to that playstyle because I don’t ever recall when it was relevant TBC being grindy, I leveled many alts but as soon as Blizzard started adding more convenience features I could see how that new mentality adoption grew on me and the community, a virus we weren’t aware of took hold.
It worked fine for groups with some patience, especially after the quality of the loot dropped by its bosses was improved later on. I’ve led countless pugs through full BRDs myself, a lot of people are game if someone shows some confidence and takes the lead.
Yep. Legion did a pretty good job of adding those small little things without making it feel like they were required for a good clear. Another one was as a Hunter at the last portion of Vault of the Wardens, you can expose mobs in the dark and make them attackable if they were outside of the orb you picked up.
You could then also use that same Flare to expose the death walls from the final boss. They changed it in SL to be only based on your Covenant choice and I think that stinks.
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But how do you make a reward system for M+ without timer?
Do you remove gear from that system and give cosmetics?
Because it would be a little broken, just muddling through and gearing up.
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Sure, that’s the nature of these kinds of games. They have to keep you playing. People think SL is grindy, and of course it is to a certain extent, but it’s nothing compared to BC. Remember mote farming for the epic mount?
I just mean the actual exploring and figuring stuff out (the rpg element) didn’t work because people learned what to do and it just became go-go gameplay.