Okay, I haven’t seen this against an Alliance pug since the BGs launched. Every match that the Horde has engaged the Alliance, we wipe the floor with you.
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That might make sense if Alliance was just losing a race to kill Drek, but that’s not what’s happening. The current map makes it very difficult for the Alliance to even establish an offense, largely because (1) the first skirmish happens on the Alliance half of the map, (2) if Alliance tag IBGY, Horde spawn 20 at a time in a nearby cave and there’s not a particularly advantageous choke for Alliance to hold, so IBGY is likely to be backcapped, (3) if Alliance want to try going SFGY first, they can’t even get to the SFGY ramp on their side of the map before Horde gets there, (4) if Horde wipes the Alliance offense after tagging SHGY it’s very difficult for Alliance to get past the SHGY choke and get back on offense again. I don’t know how you think Alliance would somehow be more successful by splitting forces at this point. That worked for Horde in the old meta because the Alliance doesn’t really defend so 10 on offense was enough (not to mention that Horde can safely group up in Drek’s room, whereas Horde can pick off Alliance on the back wall of Vann’s room without aggroing anything).
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The map bias is far worse then just the bias in distances as shown in the image.
All the horde Graveyards have Structural defensive bias built into them. One directional biases.
All of the alliance Graveyards when assaulting from the horde prospective have multi path options while the defenders are positioned such that AOE against them is more effective.
No horde Gy is this way… In fact the defensive ability of the horde GYs is structurally more secure by several dimensions.
IB GY is the strongest defensive GY the horde have in the game and even when alliance takes control they dont face the same obstacles to retake it.
Every aspect of the AV map has horde bias built in. IT’s why they’ll fix the backdoor bypass into DB. If they did alliance would have a good choke point in the bridge.
We clearly can’t allow that.
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Horde doesn’t even need to use the bridge… Most don’t now… They all use the TWO different ways of getting into DB.
There are TWO backdoor methods into DB and they both get used by large number of horde players every game.
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You realize that one of the biggest factors in winning AV is distance from spawn, right? If your players can reinforce you faster than the opposing players can, you have a substantial advantage. Also, map control matters. Horde essentially start with it whereas Alliance have to win a skirmish to even enter mid.
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Horde can reach SHB within 60 seconds of game start.
Alliance can reach SHB within 75 seconds. That’s more than enough time to get in and take it using the floor exploit before there’s a chance at defense.
I don’t know how long it’d take to reach IBT, since there’ll always be Horde in the way which is the point.
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So, ignore that. The most unique strat I saw last weekend was a group that went to Galv, killed him, recalled, then zerged IBgy. None of these distance times ya’ll are quoting were a factor, they avoided us and went for the objective then actually (light forbid) PVP’d.
They back capped at their leisure like we usually do and forced us into the choke point north of TP. It was really interesting to watch. Granted it was a pre-made that did it and ya’ll are arguing that it’s impossible to coordinate with pugs, so…
A hell of a presumption but go ahead and leap to conclusions. I honestly don’t care how you think I play the game.
Naturally this is the response- ‘we don’t have an advantage, we don’t have an advantage- oh, numbers? ok, so we do but ignore that it doesn’t matter’. Horde in a nutshell.
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Alliance can only get to Galv without winning a fight by Balinda if they’re a premade or Horde let them. And as you admitted, they were a premade. Because of the relative distances to reach objectives, if Horde are intercepting mid this can only really pulled off if (a) more or less the entire Alliance team is on epic mounts with mount speed gear AND (b) multiple mages CS/Root/Poly the horde players moving to intercept.
We all know that premade level coordination and admission requirements (e.g. mount speed gear) is sufficient to overcome the map imbalance, but that doesn’t mean that PUGs can our should be expected to execute those strategies.
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well either way, do the mental exercise: let’s say all 40 of you die and all 40 of us live.
where do you spawn?
where do we go?
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You dont, and its not close. You then get pinned into SHGY, and we farm you till we cap it, break you, and then do it at SP, and then Aid.
That’s how it really works.
wait, how does this go again? so long ago…
NU-UH
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IBgy, 50 yards from the flag, which if you’re fast, you’re on top of us farming the gy and AOEing us down while a small group caps the flag. Like the pre-mades did. But again, you seem to suggest that the Alliance is incapable of that without cheating and using the pre-made exploit.
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there is no way we can ride from SH flag (or balinda door) to IBGY flag in less then 30 seconds, unless you all literally die at the exact same time that only 10 rez and 30 stay dead.
just not happening.
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lol yes it is. If you lose the first team fight, you get stuffed into SHGY. That is factually how it goes.
At this rate, it takes place roughly every hour and 15 minutes.
(1) IBGY is not a choke. Much easier to escape from than any Alliance GY.
(2) As soon as Alliance caps IBGY Horde now spawn 20 at a time in the cave instead of 10 at a time at a GY.
(3) You’re going to get off more than one spawn wave before Alliance can get to IBGY, and there’s a choke by IBT that Horde can use to slow the Alliance offense down even more.
I’ve been in premades where the Alliance wiped the floor with Horde all the way to IBGY and then struggled to hold it because Horde are able to spawn 20 at a time so close to the GY and there’s not really a choke for Alliance to focus fire on. Healers are constantly running OOM because they don’t have time to drink unless you’ve got like 8+ which was rare even for premades. Granted higher level premades were able to more easily overwhelm the Horde, but the fact that 30+ people with voice comms weren’t able to relatively easily hold IBGY against a lower-ranked PUG even though they were EASILY able to wipe the Horde in the initial skirmish at mid shows how poorly balanced this map is.
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Wait… you can pin us down while simultaneously taking lts? Oh ya that is a huge advantage for you guys!
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The rez has a maximum. It’s how we do the gys, we know only so many of you will spawn and plan for that knowing that not the whole group needs to be there to contain you.
From SHB or SFgy, you’ve got time to wrap around and get to the flag from the timer math that was shown earlier. Everyone just needs to be on the ball.
The Horde is horrible at fighting on the flag, that’s your tactical advantage. Kite the NPCs and park, you can push back easily because the IBgy spawn point is down the hill and is a choke point.
Use the map tactically mate. I’ve seen it done. Every once in a blue moon an Alliance pug surprises us and has a weird strat that throws us off. I can say those are the times we don’t always recover, it’s 50/50.
If the Alliance wants to win AV, they have to shake things up. Because zerging, hiding at SHgy, or running past us while we pick you off isn’t working. And those are the main 3 strats I see every group do.
We honestly don’t really have much of a strat other than containing you and reacting to yours. When the reactions fail, weird things happen, then the Horde has issues.
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Wait sorry…how is IBGY an Alliance advantage? (1) The spawn is not a choke. Horde can go 3 directions (up to flag, around by Galv/IBT or out to north side of the map), (2) capping it sends Horde to cave where they spawn 20 at a time, and (3) there’s not a particularly good choke south of IBGY (particularly compared to the choke north of SHGY).
Also you’re essentially assuming that if the Alliance wins the first skirmish, they’ll somehow kill all of the Horde at the exact same time, but realistically those that die earlier in the fight will spawn before the last Horde die. So you’re talking 2-3 rez waves before Alliance is on the flag.
It’s also funny that you’re essentially admitting that Horde win all the time even though they don’t really have tactics and telling Alliance that they should develop some wacky/highly coordinated tactics for their PUG in order to win. Do you not see how absurd that is?
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