Yea, you’re right. You guys never win that first skirmish because it’s actually PVP. My bad.
Honestly we win because ya’ll don’t change anything. You’re way too predictable.
We have muscle memory counters at this point because you don’t do anything different.
As I said above, even in premades where the Alliance decisively won the first skirmish, holding IBGY can still be difficult because of the cave spawn, terrain and tower placement. On the other hand, if Horde decisively wins the first skirmish the game is effectively over because Alliance can’t get past the SHGY choke.
I also have been in the occasional PUG where the Alliance comes out more or less on top (generally not nearly as decisive as the premades would be but still) in the first skirmish. And what does that get us? Either (a) wiped at IBGY and bottled up as though we hadn’t won or (b) SFGY…which is a path to bonus honor but not a win.
If the sides were flipped, the few times the Alliance won that initial skirmish would usually result in an Alliance victory. That’s not the case right now.
False. There is always a few that get by. Horde panic and do weird stuff when our objectives start getting capped. Like the offense push can dwindle down to 15 people or less.
If you push the right buttons, you can panic Horde pugs into fracturing.
AV isn’t about the race, but shorter distances to key points definitely does provide a tactical advantage. AV has always been Horde sided… more people just play Horde these days 
Yes…a FEW can get by. Usually stealthies. But you need more than a few stealthies to get by the choke to have a chance to actually win the game, and it’s not that hard for a few Horde roaming south to clean that up. At best they’re just going to be able to kill LTs for some bonus honor before Horde ends the game.
On the flip side, it takes a concerted and coordinated effort to keep Horde bottled up at IBGY (if Alliance actually manages to take and hold it).
Theyre literally making changes in AV every week lmao
What is even the point of this conversation?
We already know the game wasn’t perfectly balanced in vanilla, the map was never completely fair. That being said, back in vanilla Alliance was the faction that won every AV.
THe issue is the devs chose all these different things that fk the game to benefit the horde… the 2 big obvious ones
Picking this AV map
Making Xrealms without Xgrouping just to help horde queue times cause people stack racials
The cave was always there though, no matter which version of the map they picked the horde will always be closer.
of you completely missing the point
undead checks out
Press M sometimes and look at the cave entrance by Frostwolf keeep. Thats how AV should be…
This one is ever better, and is why SH and the Icewing Tower choke make the map essentially unwinnable for Alliance.
Blizzard already opened the door to changing AV as they’ve significantly altered the queuing system entirely. Now it’s time to change the map so it’s even. If they won’t do this because of “no changes” then they need to revert the queuing changes.
https://.i.redd.it/9qkqwlattxe41.jpg
(remove the “.” before i)
I’m glad you’re not in charge of any real battle strategies.
There are many strategic advantages for both factions to exploit. You only see how far your cave is away from an object in the middle, but fail to see how close it is to other objects. Alliance have the ideal setup for defense, but you don’t see them playing defense…
And you can get into the Horde base and kill Drek without fighting a single elite.
As someone who played Horde back when this map was current, I pointed out the very things that Horde players take advantage of now, and asked “why don’t we do these things, we’d win every time.” And everyone else basically said No way, don’t take SHGY, we don’t want to force a turtle, we’d rather lose quickly than take 30+ minutes to win.
And that was essentially because there weren’t any appreciable differences in queue times, back then, so you could have 3 fast losses in the span of time it took to grind out 1 slow win.
what’s the win condition for defending?
do we have to grind you guys down till all 40 of you quit? summon icelord?
Problem with this overly simple graphic is that apparently Horde can ride through mountains and terrain, and the Alliance dont have to.
Weird.
what’s the win condition for defending
I can tell you don’t play objectives. Once you learn to play objectives… maybe you’ll stand a chance.
AV was never supposed to be zerg to PVE boss…
you didn’t get it.
we can defend all day, but there is no win condition for doing that, you know what a win condition is? or are you just throwing out words?