A lot of people will quit until phase 2, because they don't want to level alts without RDF or Joyous Journeys

This sounds very much like it. Why would anybody pay to be unhappy with a product unless it’s some kind of addiction?

While I could see this happening, I think most people play Classic because they like how Classic feels. Even if Dragonflight strips away a lot of the borrowed power stuff, it still won’t feel like Classic. Dragonflight will probably take some of the people who are here because retail has been bad for a while. But true Classic only players. The people who started playing back in 2019 on the promise of playing the expansions “as they were then”, will simply leave.

Who’s really arguing anything else? The only thing they’re going to really notice is if the sub numbers start going down.

We’re only a week in. The hardcore players are raiding now, and casual players are just starting to hit 80. Of course things are fine now. But how will they be a month and a half from now? Or three months from now? IMO, that’s the real test.

I’ll give you this one. I can see how you made this connection. However, I don’t think playing itself is the addiction and that wasn’t my statement. People whine a LOT in the forums but they keep playing because it’s not as bad as all the whining purports. This is where people come to claim the sky is falling but the reality is less hyperbolic and the game is better than the forums would lead you to believe.

Since you made this “addiction” connection, I think the rewards are the addiction. If all someone did was level from 30-58, I don’t think they’d ever feel the addictive properties of WoW. RDF is favoring the addiction by stimulating instant gratification as part of the leveling process. But there’s a cost and it harms the game. Just like hard drugs eventually erode the body. If you only did them once, it typically wouldn’t matter, but that’s not what happens…

I’m okay with this because Wrath caters to the people who played in 2008 and those players have been represented significantly. This may be the last time WoW exists in this form, before the automations destroyed this game we all played for 5 years prior in its “original” form.


The arguments have been so dramatic, petty, crazy, personal, or absurd. To list “who”, the internet doesn’t have enough space. But since I’ve seen you post on a number of threads, I know that has to be rhetorical.

The only thing they’re going to really notice is if the sub numbers start going down.

That is the only metric that matters. Not polls. Not opinions. Not thread counts. Not the whining. Not the 100 people who rage quit. Not the debates. Not the merits of tools. Only a significant decline in subs and Wrath activity.

The tool harmed the game (along with other changes). The question is really, given its a re-release, does it have the appeal to creep up in activity once the “automate everything carebears” Blizzard has catered to for 12 years all leave.

…I’m an optimist. I think Wrath is good enough it might.

Wrath is good enough I have faith. It really is superior to any other MMO available during this era. It is hardly perfect but this version is the reigning champion of this genre. If Blizzard doesn’t screw it up again, it could have some pulling power.

I hope we see a decline in players for QoL improvements (queues) and those players ease over to Retail.

I can agree with this.

I can agree with this as well. This is part of where retail went wrong.

I don’t know about this. It’s not really “instant” since dps at least will have to wait in a queue. Also, you still have to complete the content to get the reward if you assume the reward is the gear. If you assume the reward is the chance to run a dungeon, then yeah, I guess RDF does affect that. But, should that be a “reward”?

You sure you want to say this? The term “Wrath baby” exists for a reason. If somebody started playing, say, two months into Wrath, they probably hit 80 just a few months before RDF was added. They don’t really remember a time before it.

It depends. If you’re right and the market is big enough for a more “Classic” style game, then they’ll continue to do it that way. Why do you think they sent the Cata survey so early? They know they have to make a ton of changes to even come close to making Cata a viable product for the Classic players. If no RDF works here, I’m pretty sure they’ll be willing to carry it onto Cata.

Well, there are people arguing about why people are anti RDF. Those attacks are all of those things. But that’s not really directed at Blizzard. Everybody should know nothing matters to Blizzard except the sub numbers.

If you think this content is easy wait til you find out about molten core. Logs show most pugs are getting beaned by Patchwork Rn. This is retail Andy problems

Questing sucks big time

You do get a watered down Joyous Journeys buff, its called heirloom gear. Thats 20% extra xp.

You are forgetting about heirlooms.

at least it gives a chance to noobs like me…

You can already see it now.

Go onto various servers and look at the LFG tool for low level stuff. I’m not sure what you gain from being willfully ignorant.

RDF sucks and most people i know who are actually good at the game agree. i’m glad you lazy players are quitting.

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I’m glad too. Hopefully they merge more servers so we just have one for each coast.

Probably, but Blizzard has good 3 month of game time out of tourist and you until release of dragonflight. It is more and more likely, they will release an old expansion during content drought

i mean honestly if you play the game at all you’ll have a ton of extra badges and you can use those on heirlooms anyway

leveling becomes a lot faster once you get the 20% from heirlooms and having an updated weapon / chest / shoulders all the time makes a huge difference

Casual player here, I subbed for a month to see if Wrath would be fun without friends playing it. Might just let it expire. I only am posting this for the die hards that are saying NO to quality of life features that enable casuals and people who largely wont be playing for end game raid content (or atleast for a while) to simply enjoy the game.

Let me define my casual: I have been leveling the same chars off and on since classic began, my main I am using is now almost 50 and I have tons of <20 alts across servers I have played with friends.

Here is my experience since leveling 28-48 on wrath, I am on windseeker and have done 1 dungeon. (ZF) because no one is queing for any dungeons or looking for anything at lower levels. There is legit only 5 people in the LFG tool at a time. I have just leveled up my skinning instead for gear and just grinded quests. This means I have quested through MAJOR dungeons like SM and will not be playing this content, simply because it is not accessible. I also don’t see anyone questing, and I have spammed battlegrounds because it lets me interact in a MMO way thats fun (AND ITS AVAILABLE).

I find it rediculous that people want to make it HARDER to play a game that has been (RE-Released???) and is still a subscription model after how many years. Who is going to keep paying to play a game long term, when theres so many barriers to even enjoying or outright even playing the content?

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No but he did say ‘a lot of people’ implying he knew the numbers

Why is it all the posters calling everyone quits because they geared their bis pre raid and cleared naxx once are low level undergeared chars? Why would you spam to 80 and then spam to gear full pre raid bis, but not continue gearing through the raid lol…

Just go play shadowlands it has 50% exp buff and rdf!

Ya’ll a bunch of cry babies…wahhh wahhhh. gimme rdf!! bro I never have trouble finding groups. shut up. Get into a guild, make some friends. Don’t rely on Daddy Blizz to fix your pathetic problems.

Well as long as we’re telling people to go to another game . . . just go play FFXIV, it has xp buff and group finder. And it’s a much better game.


Or what?