A look at the future of the Forsaken - Support For Calia ♕

I wanted to pull this conversation from where it was buried in another thread. In this thread we were discussing concepts for the Forsaken to govern themselves, and their future. There was the typical push back against Calia. I am going to step forward as a long-time Forsaken player (since van) and touch on why I and many others support Calia for the future of the Forsaken.


I and many others support Calia as a leader of the Forsaken, and do so for many reasons based on our understanding of the long arch of lore around the Forsaken story. That is not to say Calia is perfect, and that is not to say Sylvanas is trash. I deeply appreciate both characters for who and what they are.

However, the big picture on Calia is a poor handling of her story on Blizzard’s part, which stems from them over-fixating on writing Forsaken lore centered around when Sylvanas wanted something. The Forsaken as a whole deserve to be layered, and more complex beyond being used for when when a Horde baddie is needed to throw blight. The Forsaken are a faction of undead, who were once living humans, and their founding and start was in the fall of Lordaeron. Many of these original Forsaken are victims, who became undead through simply being exposed to the wrong grain shipment or loaf of bread.

“For Lordaeron” is still a chant that rings true in the game…and it doesn’t belong just to living human Paladins who play on the Alliance.

Ample Forsaken recall who they were and a time before the Scourging.

Calia has been asked for, for many years by the fan base. Alas, the hyper fixation on Sylvanas as the primary point of Forsaken storytelling means they overlooked many other aspects of the Forsaken. We have a handful of Forsaken who are Lordaeron nobles and more in the game.

Sylvanas was little more than a cruel authoritarian dictator who openly regarded her people as disposable weapons. Need we recall the quote that she regarded them as arrows in her quiver. Speaking as someone who enjoys archery; arrows are disposable weapons. You never fire an arrow you intend to get back.

Calia’s death and rebirth into what she is now is…a failure on Blizzards part. That said, in the Before The Storms book Calia’s compassion for the Forsaken as her people were laid bare, and it was her compassion for the Forsaken that got her murdered by Sylvanas.

Calia presents something interesting for the Forsaken that the Dark Lady could never offer. Calia’s claim to the crown allows for her to be politically weaponized against the Alliance of Stormwind claiming Lordaeron, and wiping the Forsaken off of it. Calia also brings with her political connections. Even in the real world, the dead still have rights, and can own estates/wealth…but this is not the real world.

As for Calia losing her claim to the throne of Lordaeron when she died? This is a world of magic, with the undead having existed in it for thousands of years. After all, Sylvanas was called the Banshee Queen, yet had no rightful claim to any such title.

Tragically, writing for Calia in the game however has shown her to be soft, and devoid of additional depth to make her a more compelling character. I highly suspect stuff was planned and written for her in Shadowlands, and it was dropped…much like many other things when Shadowlands was cut short due to how unpopular it is.

The Forsaken story needs to grow beyond being a fan service for Sylvanas. I and many others welcome Calia as a new chapter. By no means do I think Calia will make the Forsaken weak and soft, I think it marks a new more dangerous era of Forsaken political games that will lean into their better sense of canny, making them effective political tools against the Alliance for the Horde.

That said, I like both Calia and Sylvanas. I am equally big fans of both, and yet see them for being very different characters and leader styles.

If you have not, read the book Before The Storm. This book does a wonderful job showing Calia’s compassion toward the Forsaken as her people. It also humanizes and gives depths to the Forsaken as a faction and people beyond throwing blight on command. Calia’s claim to the throne is a powerful political weapon for the Forsaken to use to become even more dangerous.

Addition: Calia was added to the MMO in 2016 with Legion, she has existed in the MMO game for roughly 6 years. She has been in the canon lore since W3 as a canon figure.

Calia canon lore quotes below:

-Quote: Calia: “He helped save me. I remembered him, you see. And in the midst of all that horror, when I was constantly fleeing so many I loved whose minds and wills had been stolen from them… to see the face of someone who was still who he had been— It was as if hope itself was a sword that stabbed clean through me. Except instead of wounding, it offered me the chance to move through my shock and pain to a place of healing. So you see, for me, the Forsaken weren’t monsters. They were friends. It was the Scourge, the shambling, stumbling things that wore my friends’ faces—they had become monsters.”

-Quote: “You are my people, and I want to help you. I only came to observe, to begin to get to know the Forsaken of Lordaeron.”

43 Likes

Touching on lore…

When the undead citizens of Lordaeron formed into the group now known as the Forsaken one of the first things they did was dispatch formal diplomats to Stormwind to try and re-establish a connection with the Alliance and the human Kingdoms.

The Alliance of Stormwind slaughtered those diplomats: an act of war.

16 Likes

Like I said in the other thread:

Some posters talk about Calia’s unfamiliarity with the Forsaken condition, but it seems like Calia understands them better than most players do. It’s pretty much established that being undead is painful and miserable. Calia is one of the only characters who seeks to actually DO something to fix that, instead of just teaching them to live with their misery.

She actually possesses the ability to ease their suffering, and, realistically, the Forsaken would want that for themselves, and love her for giving it to them.

Unfortunately, that’s not what the Forsaken PLAYERS, who specifically picked their character so they could play a tortured goth, want for their characters.

But the PCs are not the majority of the Forsaken people. What the Forsaken people would want for themselves isn’t what the Forsaken players want.

17 Likes

Easy fix. Expansion after Dragonflight do a faction swap.

Forsaken go to the Alliance. Calia’s already friendly with them, Forsaken get to search their souls for a deeper softer side and redemption and Humans get Lordaeron by proxy.

Worgen go to the Horde. Gilneans feel betrayed that their biggest enemies are now allies, being beasts they fit the Horde aesthetic nicely, Horde can devote resources to retaking and rebuilding Gilneas to sweeten the deal.

Lets go crazy, let’s shake things up.

5 Likes

I speculate (based on the admission of certain devs that GoT is an inspiration during BfA) that Calia was originally devised as a Khaleesi. That our seemingly innocent princess, exiled from what once was her kingdom, would be abused then become an abuser who self identifies as a liberator.

It could work for another Forsaken narrative, and I could think of a number of potential Forsaken Jon Snows. If heinous enough, it could be used as a door to re-introduce a reformed Sylvanas down the line.

That said, I have lost faith in the devs to follow through with any controversial storytelling.

3 Likes

I honestly like the idea of Calia being a leader (even if she kinda reminds me of a Sin Eater).

I have… literally never heard anybody say this, subtly or blatantly.

4 Likes

y’all over here talking about what the forsaken are and i just wanted to RP a guy who didn’t know what the hell was going on during classic and fish but everybody who RP’d on classic left

8 Likes

Let me change that.

I identified with the forsaken almost immediately. The toxic feminine of Jung’s Devouring Mother, embodied by Sylvanas hit very close to home, and I found it therapeutic to act out the super unhealthy dynamic of my forsaken and their Banshee queen.

I loved the tragedy and the humor of seeing through the eyes of these monsters, who could no longer feel any but negative emotions, and toxic versions of positive emotions.

So yeah… I think I made my characters to play a tortured goth, at least cartoonishly.

7 Likes

Absolutely not. Not every undead is Forsaken.

If, for example, we find out that Calia was actually dominated by the light for 2 expansions, and used as a weapon against shadow, then Calia, through sheer force of will and a sense of duty to her people, breaks free of that manipulation and becomes a free willed undead, now critical of the Holy light, and rejected by those who loved her in life…

Then she might understand.

8 Likes

Honestly, that is valid and legit rp. Most characters would not have an omnipresent understanding of the world stage, stories, and affairs beyond their daily life. You can do this on retail. It’s frankly, good rp. Characters should -not- know everything. There is a separation between player and character.

6 Likes

You can do that on retail too, to be fair.

2 Likes

I think it’s totally doable and something you should definitely stick to! I’ve noticed Horde side MG blowing up recently, and I think you could still pull this off and enjoy it to the fullest extent. I know there’s a whole lot of other things going on, and I’m still learning about the RP limitations within the lore, but I do love this idea and approach.

But I 100% understand the appeal of Classic. I was disappointed too.

We blowin up like Theramore (but for real, we are). Join us, we have cake and chaos.

1 Like

Correct.

Not all undead are Forsaken. The Forsaken are a political / group of undead who were first formed and founded from the Scourging of Lordaeron. The founding members were the citizens of Lordaeron who were undead and freed of the grip of the Lich King. There are a variety of elves mixed into that as well, and a few other races who were residences of Lordaeron when it fell. The vast majority of Lordaeron fell to the Scouring. Playing W3 you see first hand how the Silverhand were cleanly wiped out 1 by 1…

Those Silverhand also prolly were raised as Scourge, and then eventually became free of the Lich King. Forsaken who were former Silverhand are…very much on the table. This is why so many fans of Lordaeron/Forsaken lore want Forsaken Paladins.

Over the years, the Forsaken have picked up other undead from other nations and races. All the same, the Forsaken are in fact Lordaeron.

Even so - the Forsaken at their founding, is the story of Lordaeron and its fall to the Scouring.

It is time to move past the fall, and the forsaken being treated as disposable bad guy plot hooks.

Calia presents legitimacy in a way no other character could for the Forsaken. That legitimacy is…very dangerous. Do not mistake Calia’s softness for weakness. She has demonstrated in lore her convictions and dedication to her people, to the point of being willing to die for them.

6 Likes

Oh please, we don’t know what happened to those diplomats. I’d also point out betraying Garithos(as despicable as he was) is just much an act of war and we don’t know the Alliance learned of it.

5 Likes

I feel like “so many” is a bit hyperbolic, though it has come up from time to time.

I always wanted a Forsaken Paladin to act out my dark chivalry fantasy for Sylvanas. Effectively making the Deathguard an order would be cool.

1 Like

Having played Forsaken since ye old days, and been a part of the rp community the whole time? Naw, a lot of the rotters want their Forsaken Paladins.

3 Likes

Garithos belonged to the Kingdom of Lordaeron, and Sylvanas did him very dirty. For those curious, you can read more here. That said, the murder of those diplomats is very unlikely connected, considering how little in the way of info escaped the north due to how extreme the carnage was. Further more, his body as fully consumed by ghouls - leaving nothing of him behind to betray his fate.

As it stands, there is no lore stating that the Forsaken diplomats from Lordaeron were slain over Garithos.

2 Likes

I’m in support of lore that doesn’t treat the Forsaken as being so barebones (pun intended/not intended) in leadership potential that they have to drag literal outsiders of the Forsaken Nation, which these days encompasses more than just former living Lordaeraenians, into the position of head of state. Both Calia and Voss can be just as effective at helping the Forsaken as members of the nation without somehow being thrust upon the role of head of state or council representatives decades before it would ever make sense. And I say this as someone that would love nothing more than to have Voss as the new Forsaken racial leader over any other undead character. Maybe if there’s some kind of significant time skip, I could buy it.

1 Like

In Banshih we trust.

3 Likes