Forsaken Gov. Ideas

Lore Story Forum
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The big picture on Calia is a poor handling of her story on Blizzards part, which stems from them over-fixating on writing Forsaken lore centered around when Sylvanas wanted something. The Forsaken as a whole deserve to be layered, and more complex beyond being used for when when a Horde baddie is needed to throw blight. The Forsaken are a faction of undead, who were once living humans, and their founding and start was in the fall of Lordaeron. Many of these original Forsaken are victims, who became undead through simply being exposed to the wrong grain shipment or loaf of bread.

“For Lordaeron” is still a chant that rings true in the game…and it doesn’t belong just to living human Paladins who play on the Alliance.

Ample Forsaken recall who they were and a time before the Scourging.

Calia has been asked for, for many years by the fan base. Alas, the hyper fixation on Sylvanas as the primary point of Forsaken storytelling means they overlooked many other aspects of the Forsaken. We have a handful of Forsaken who are Lordaeron nobles and more in the game.

Sylvanas was little more than a cruel authoritarian dictator who openly regarded her people as disposable weapons. Need we recall the quote that she regarded them as arrows in her quiver. Speaking as someone who enjoys archery; arrows are disposable weapons. You never fire an arrow you intend to get back.

Calia’s death and rebirth into what she is now is…a failure on Blizzards part. That said, in the Before The Storms book Calia’s compassion for the Forsaken as her people were laid bare, and it was her compassion for the Forsaken that got her murdered by Sylvanas.

Calia presents something interesting for the Forsaken that the Dark Lady could never offer. Calia’s claim to the crown allows for her to be politically weaponized against the Alliance of Stormwind claiming Lordaeron, and wiping the Forsaken off of it. Calia also brings with her political connections.

As for Calia losing her claim to the throne of Lordaeron when she died? This is a world of magic, with the undead having existed in it for thousands of years. After all, Sylvanas was called the Banshee Queen, yet had no rightful claim to any such title.

Tragically, writing for Calia in the game however has shown her to be soft, and devoid of additional depth to make her a more compelling character. I highly suspect stuff was planned and written for her in Shadowlands, and it was dropped…much like many other things when Shadowlands was cut short due to how unpopular it is.

The Forsaken story needs to grow beyond being a fan service for Sylvanas. I and many others welcome Calia as a new chapter. By no means do I think Calia will make the Forsaken weak and soft, I think it marks a new more dangerous era of Forsaken political games that will lean into their better sense of canny, making them effective political tools against the Alliance for the Horde.

That said, I like both Calia and Sylvanas. I am equally big fans of both, and yet see them for being very different characters and leader styles.

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29

The “old guard” of Forsaken players loved the idea. The whole “we zombies are the true heirs of Lordaeron” shtick was the highest item on the Forsaken agenda a couple of forum rollbacks ago, and the prospect of an undead Calia Menethil championing their rights was ambrosia. She was the only potential replacement for Sylvanas they were willing to entertain; they lost their minds when that very story hook made it to the writing contest finals in 2011. The thought made human male paladin types quake in their boots.

Of course, I doubt those fans quite imagined their undead princess coming back to them as this ridiculous light golem. Trust Blizzard to take a solid concept and execute it in the worst, most unpalatable way imaginable.

Edit: Banshih beat me to it.

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30

Legitimacy is not the issue, suitability is.

You talk about unfamiliarity with the Forsaken condition, but it seems like Calia understands them better than most players do. It’s pretty much established that being undead is painful and miserable. Calia is one of the only characters who seeks to actually DO something to fix that, instead of just teaching them to live with their misery.

She actually possesses the ability to ease their suffering, and, realistically, the Forsaken would want that for themselves, and love her for giving it to them.

Unfortunately, that’s not what the Forsaken PLAYERS, who specifically picked their character so they could play a tortured goth, want for their characters.

But the PCs are not the majority of the Forsaken people. What the Forsaken people would want for themselves isn’t what the Forsaken players want.

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31

I don’t think there is much of an old guard versus new guard mentality so much as those who know a lot of the lore and those who are not yet indepth. In the end we are all the same community, and that kind of mentality is really toxic. Everyone should be welcome to play regardless of being old or new.

This boils down to lore.

That said, the way they made Calia undead is…odd. Calia’s claim to the throne is a powerful political weapon for the Forsaken to use to become even more dangerous. That said, we can’t change what Blizzard writes.

In the end - many of us who understand and follow the Forsken lore new and old look at this as a new change of pace and have hope that we can see the Forsaken story written with more depth beyond being Sylvanas fan service.

Again, I like Sylvanas…but…I’m tired of the Forsaken story existing only to make her important.

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32

One of the things that is unique about Calia and the Forsaken is…

Calia openly sees the Forsaken for who they were, and what they have become.

The Forsaken are very much still humans. The book Before The Storm made it very clear that the Forsaken as a whole ache for acceptance, and to find a place in the world.

If you have not yet read the book Before The Storm, do so. Its very eye opening.

I’ll admit, the scene that happened at Arathi when Sylvanas started openly murdering Forsaken in front of the Alliance (including Forsaken loyal to Sylvanas mind you), I teared up reading it. The scene with the undead brothers trying to protect their elderly mother, only for the elderly mother to watch her undead sons be murdered by the Dark Rangers? Heart breaking.

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33

I’m moving this to it’s own thread: A look at the future of the Forsaken - Support For Calia ♕

This convo will interest many people, but I hate for it to be buried.

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Yeah that’s really not where I was going with that. It’s just interesting how a wish made ten years ago is starting to come true, but in a form no one is comfortable with. There were a thousand ways to do a compelling undead-Calia arc and they zombified her in a way so stupid and polarizing it boggles the mind.

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35

Thank you for clarifying, I misunderstood.

That said, I jumped this to a new thread since this topic deserves its own dedicated space: A look at the future of the Forsaken - Support For Calia ♕

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I absolutely don’t disagree with that though. I know Forsaken players were looking forward to meeting Calia Menethil and I’m genuinely sad that they were let down so hard. The problem is that the only Calia we know right now is a complete disaster of a character, Before the Storm introduced her as literally a female Anduin, sharing the exact same values, the exact same flaws (thoughtlessness, naivety etc) and giving off the exact same vibes. I think we all agree that the Forsaken must evolve, especially now that Sylvanas is gone, but that evolution needs some consistency… The Forsaken just can’t go from having the worship of a genocidal, universe-threatening Dark Lady as their core identity to being led by a Light-infused golden savior who remained dead for exactly 5 minutes after she tried to bring them into the Alliance on the first occasion. What she embodies as a character (currently at least) makes her incredibly unfit to the role, to me

I mean, of course Forsaken players don’t want something that is in complete contradiction with everything that has made the identity of their race for the past 20 years. I won’t blame them.

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37

Deathknight governors, flying Necropili mobile fortresses, reanimation guarantee from “death” for UD Forsaken, and an irreplaceable deathstalker intelligence service with Voss leading it, dark rangers on the peripheral advising only.

Ideally, put 4-8 UD Forsaken deathknights with their own contingents and armies as governing and as defensive/offensive garrisons, with mobile Necropolis forts.

An antithesis to the knights of the silver hand

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The players wouldn’t want it, but their characters and the Forsaken NPCs would. Because there’s no logical reason for them to want to stay miserable when they don’t have to.

So Blizzard is stuck with the choice between:
A. Choosing what makes the most sense for the story(i.e. the Forsaken choosing someone that will actually help them), or
B. Choosing what will please the fanbase(i.e. the Forsaken choosing some edgelord that’ll keep them angsty)

Of course, Blizzard has gone route A before. When they had the Blood Elves purify the Sunwell. Storywise, something every BE would want. But it erased pretty much everything that was interesting about playing a BE character.

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Utilize the deathknights.

They raise their own armies anyway

Just make the Baron/Duke/Fief DK governors able to not only reassemble the dead UD Forsaken but also attach their souls to their constructs similar to the Primus and his covenant

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Then Christie Golden did her job. Grr.

The “light zombie” thing goes beyond sloppy. It’s a deal-breaker.

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42

What about a democracy? Form a group that answers to an elected count or baron. It’s different to most of the main WoW races. From my understanding, most governments for the playable races are monarchies or dictatorships with a couple of theocracies thrown in.

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Wow, in three sentences you insulted everyone who picked Forsaken as a race, then diminished their standing compared to NPCs, and then gave agency to those NPCs (which fit your own feelings).

That’s impressive.

For me, the Forsaken’s initial appeal was based on an interesting narrative. They were/are a group of those freed from the Lich King. They struggled to find a foothold in the world because most folks associated them with the Scourge and faced bigotry from others who see them as monstrosities. So they ended up living in the sewers under Lordaeron, just trying to live their unlife as it were.

Then throw in some kookiness with respect to their newfound undeadness. Building an odd society in the sewers, replacing lost limbs, and making jokes about literally falling apart added some fun. They also had their emotional and mental states warped upon unlife, which led to them feeling confusion at reactions to their own actions.

My biggest gripe with Calia is she’s just written in so much poor taste. The Forsaken supposedly are hurt by using Light magic; Calia is a Light-raised undead. The Forsaken have been undead (in general) for a while, while Calia is only recently undead and has none of the similar experiences the rest of the Forsaken have had since being raised into undeath.

I think Calia could have some interesting storylines, especially with respect to learning about Forsaken society, but having Light-Zombie-Barbie take over is a bit tone-deaf.

You mean hanging out with the person infused with the magic that hurts them? Yeah I’m not sure why the Forsaken (NPCs or PCs) would see it that way.

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44

Why? Because I said they wanted to play as tortured goths? Who cares. I picked my character to play as a ridiculous twirling edgelord. Don’t be ashamed of your character.

Because, lorewise, the NPCs vastly outnumber the PCs. So it makes sense that they should be the ones deciding who leads their own faction.

That’s like saying “Nobody wants to be around fire mages because of how people are flammable”.

Except she hangs out with undead all the time and it’s not hurting any of them so…apparently it doesn’t.

Unless I missed the scenes where Derek and Voss kept bursting into flames while talking to her.

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That’s always weird to me. People often want to play the forsaken in a very specific manner, often the way they introduced in WC 3. You know, a race willing to do anything and everything to come out on top and survive.

But people seem to loose their ish when that’s mentioned. :wolf:

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Not really. The only undead characters that actively bemoan their state were Zeliak and Sylvanas. Forsaken tend to get sad for a few moments then bounce back to normal.

She really doesn’t, unless we consider basic psychology a superpower unique to her.

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47

Well…it’s like a medieval setting. They probably don’t have, like, a ton of grief councilors.

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Not as a specific job no, but counciling generally ran under the purview of the church. Any Forsaken aligned priest should be able to do the same thing if we were being strictly medieval in setting.

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