No, he was right the first time. Given the reality of the mindset and toxicity of modern gamers, removing any form of option for them to insert more toxicity into the game (i.e. the beta LFG tool as it exists), is a bad idea. The amount of toxicity from this contrived (and wasted effort) system as opposed to the rare occurence of vote-kick abuse in LFD will be staggering.
Classic has showed me 2 things… Tanks do not like to pug and finally the community is a mix of the old guard who love the original game and its querks.
The rest if the community are people who are bored with retail bc shadowlands is trash, so they came to TBCC about 1 year ago and it didnt take long for them to miss the QoL changes that retail has… thus the forum sperging for said QoL changes.
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Except, they’ve said that something will not be added because it comes at “the expense of gameplay” before, and then reverted said change once they realized how unpopular their opinion was.
Ion Hazzikostas May 22 2015:
Having looked at how flying has played out in the old world in the last couple of expansions, we realized that while we were doing it out of this ingrained habit after we introduced flying in The Burning Crusade , it actually detracted from gameplay in a whole lot of ways. While there was certainly convenience in being able to completely explore the world in three dimensions, that also came at the expense of gameplay like targeted exploration, like trying to figure out what’s in that cave on top of a hill and how do I get up there.
The world feels larger, feels more dangerous. There’s more room for exploration, for secrets, for discovery and overall immersion in the world. At this point, we feel that outdoor gameplay in World of Warcraft is ultimately better without flying. We’re not going to be reintroducing the ability to fly in Draenor, and that’s kind of where we’re at going forward.
Hazziokostas confirms that this direction includes future expansions, though he doesn’t discount the possibility of adding flight options in to specific expansion ideas or zones that would benefit from it. In general, though, he believes that exploration in Blizzard’s massive world “works better and feels better in our view when you’re doing it from the ground.”
The forums exploded when this was announced, there were quite a few people defending no flying, just as we’re seeing with now with RDF. 19 days later though, they reversed their decision: https://www.wowhead.com/news/dev-watercooler-flying-in-draenor-247882
You’re not misunderstanding! So how consistently would you not mind? At what point would it feel it feel forced to do the opposite? What is the farthest swing in the opposite direction you’d tolerate?
It is at the expense of gameplay stop derailing the thread.
This has nothing to do with my thread or discussion, I was asking a hypothetical stop derailing the thread
Tanks didn’t like to pug in vanilla, nothing new about that.
Sort of, keep in mind they lied about being able to turn on flying with the drop of a dime and then when they did re add flying they did it in a super passive aggressive way.
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Nah, the devs decided to force their bad idea onto the game, and are entirely going to add RDF later for good PR of “Look guys we are listening to you”.
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Why are you here, youre not interested in discussing the topic, your interested in whining and hyperbole, shoo
I also responded to meowkitty.
If you got 2x the badges in heroics from not using RDF, I’d be fine with it.
But I’d also say just add RDF and let people suck it up because it was apart of Wrath and shouldn’t be removed because blizzard is a bunch of monke.
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Not interested in discussing wether or not rdf should be in the game sorry, i made that clear at the beginning of the thread, if i wanted your opinion on that i would have asked for it.
that might be a good idea. especially for longevity. what if you only got gear from heroic and no badges? what if heroics had a weekly cd on rdf and premades had a daily cd? this last idea is probably terrible, but ignore the logistics of it, what if you were a fraction of the efficiency of premades. at what point would it be too much for you personally? at would point do you think NOONE would be in queu, effectively removing that option from the game?
Im not asking so that we can push it that far. i asked the anti RDF poster the opposite, what the most they could give RDF without it feeling compulsory. because im sure theres a cool little meeting point in the middle somewhere, a range of overlap.
Okay but what’s the point in changing Wrath. This isn’t meant to be creating a new game. You got badges from your heroics, used badges to buy epics that you didn’t acquire through raiding + mats + PVP gear. The only thing you can argue is creating bonuses for people who invest more time, e.g. flying. And even at that point you’re going to cause issues due to the fact that people who don’t fly see it as a waste of their time, even if they can run the dungeons in half the time it takes the groups who fly to instances because they feel slighted.
I did respond. You didn’t because you apparently had no counterpoint since you never responded yet are still here.
this is my thread but i’ll humor you here
false dichotomy. you get the same amount of gear if you raid log if you compare /played while actively raiding. If you want to include assembling gold and consumes out side of raids, the opportunity cost is wether you perform well and get invited back, which if you dont ultimately results in less gear. I shouldnt have to spell this out for you.
This has nothing to do with what i was saying. I symply showed you an example of ANY SYSTEM which went unused for an amount of time because it wasnt worth utilizing. I asked you how far can you push RDF before this happens to it.
This is absolutely wrong and coping. From the time rdf was introduced there were gold/badge/gear benefits. theres also a benefit to being able to grind out things like dailies and crafting and gold which contributes to prebis while a system did the group finding for you. Use your brain.
like any data analysis, its “somewhere in the middle, weighted by clusters of players, and understanding the significance of premades who then queu, partial premades, and dual specc availability.”
youre asking gotcha questions on a hypothetical. and dumb ones. i explicitly asked if they miraculously figured out the wining recipe that 100% hit the nail on the head and slowed down the efficiency of RDF in ways that made it a trade off, would you be ok with it? I ignored your questions, because you were only interested in derailing the thread and gave up probably 20 mins of your life you’ll never get back trying to derail an honestly hypothetical thread.
this isnt the thread for that, theres a hundred of them by the same 5 people if you just go up to BCC discussion. Like i said didnt ask for you opinion in this regard dont care, stop derailing the thread.
It may be “your” thread, but don’t call someone out for not being willing to discuss when you are the one at fault.
False. you can get more gear by putting in more time because not all BiS gear comes from raids. In almost every phase so far there is crafted gear that is BiS that you need to put in time outside of raiding to get that gear completely disregarding consumables. More time spent equals more and generally better gear. You actively earn less gear by raid logging, but that is people’s preference and they do it.
So answer, is raid logging now compulsory because a majority of people prefer that method of play? I shouldn’t have to spell it out for you.
As I have already answered you can strip RDF to its core component. The automation of group formation; which forms a group and assigns a random dungeon for the group to do. It would still likely be preferred by the majority, simply due to the fact that the majority aren’t leaders and do not want to take the initiative to form a group themselves. If you “push” anymore you are no longer implementing RDF, you are implementing an entirely different system that you are naming RDF.
First off the badges rewarded were just the dailies that you previously had to go to an NPC to pick up first. It was the first daily heroic that rewarded you badges for completing a dungeon. Nothing more.
Second, you can grind out things like dailies, crafting, and gold. Nothing says when you are “manually” forming a group you must stay stock still in a city or outside the dungeon. That is just what people choose to do because they don’t want to multitask and remember to hit their macro button every minute or so if they are forming the group, and if they are looking for one looking at their bulletin board addon that requires no additional input, but to wait for someone else to form the group for them. This isn’t an inherent benefit of RDF. Don’t treat it as such.
Third, insulting people just show you aren’t confident in your stance.
No, I’m asking you to define the parameters you set forward. /played is an incredible random parameter that can be moved around in an attempt to put forward your own standpoint.
Since you have finally set a point of the middle ground or the two ends of the “manual” spectrum. Which would be the equivalent of DPS player with 2 DPS friends or maybe a DPS player with a healer friend. I can finally. Your entire point is moot. Simply for the fact you could never slow down the efficiency of RDF for all groups equally. There is an imbalance in the Tank, Healer, and DPS situation in the player base. If you slow down RDF efficiency for a Tank. You massively push out DPS from gearing at all with the system as you are not making said take arbitrary wait 30-60 minutes for a queue to pop. Which would likely make DPS have to wait 2-3 hours for a queue to pop. There is no reality in which a “100% hit the nail on the head and slowed down the efficiency of RDF” would exist without making an entirely new system that isn’t RDF while claiming that it is. Which I’ve already defined what RDF is at its core.
Finally, you ignored my question, because you knew that it shuts down your “hypothetical” thread. That you didn’t actually seek any discussion on the topic, because any such discussion about your “hypothetical” is derailing, unless you just go with a general answer that doesn’t assist in any form of discussion which is “Yes” or “No” in which case you could have simply put up a poll instead of asking for a discussion.
reported for trolling, not interested in your “definition of RDF”, not interested in being led down a tangent to debate whether the system should be in the game in the first place, wether it deserves to or not. Any “answers” you give or "questions you have that arent on topic i’ll be ignoring. Stop derailing my thread.
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