To all my rdf people screaming over and over “HAVING RDF DOESNT STOP YOU FROM MAKING UR OWN GROUPS 5HEAD” I have a real legitimate question.
Would you be okay with an rdf that gave you bis and badges at a rate the exact same as a traditional group? Not like the same amount of gear and badges… but that someone who spammed RDF and someone who did a mix of creating groups and joining them could gear around + or - 5% margin of error in their /played from fresh 80 to prebis with a stock of badges.
Would this be something you would still want to do? It would probably involve a badge cap, maybe personal loot, maybe 1 peice of gear per heroic per day, idk. would you still support an actual choice?
There is a choice if they add LFD. They can take away the teleport, restrict cross-realm, remove the extra emblems, and people would still prefer LFD because it’s a better system.
Reported for trolling, i never asked if there was choice, i asked if youd support this type of choice. one that geared at the same pace. stop trying to derail the conversation.
In the mythological world where they existed side by side and choosing 1 over the other provided no detriment to progression time.
You dont believe that rdf will be a choice you literally said it right there. blizz agrees
Fixed for you. People will not choose it at all if it didnt drop loot or badges. people would not choose it at all if it took you a month of 2 hours spams in RDF to get you 1 weeks worth of manually made gear. This is the LFR debacle all over again.
If both ways gave the same amount of loot and I didn’t have to spend all my free time convincing people I am good enough for their group sure. I ultimately just wanna play the game, not spam chats, watch add ons, whisper countless people until I am worthy.
Removing the bonuses (or, adding a repeatable quest if you really don’t want to just queue into RDF as a 5 stack) and the teleport would mean you’d gear at the same pace only if the average queue time was the same amount of time that it’d take to make a group of 5, with the potential of gearing faster if you can get a group of 5 together faster.
It’s not just the time (20~60 minutes usually) that it takes to get a group through the current LFG and addon. It’s also having to sit there and spam it and watch it, and also the uncertainty of the time it’s going to take.
nope, if you spent the same amount of time sitting in queu or applying for groups, within a 5% margin of error recorded in /played
I believe you could totally make this work. You could get your LFD dependable gearing done in a specific amount of time, or you could focus on getting/making groups and speed that time up maybe to the tune of 5-10% in /played. or a mix of both depending on your day and what it looks like
You misunderstood me, yes even if it was the same amount of time. I just don’t like having to stop playing the game to look through a chat window, group finder window, add on window, whatever other annoying UI I have to stare at. This way I could continue to play the game and do as I please and know I will queue.
This is the reason why the RFD is superior to making groups for the average player. It lets you do other things while you wait in a queue (like the battle masters for BGs). If they do put in an RDF there should be ZERO incentives or bonuses to use it. The tool itself IS the bonus. You may be able to put together an LFG group faster, but the set it and forget it RDF is “fast enough” while letting you do other stuff while you wait for it to pop makes it superior for the average player.
So questio number 2. if perfectly tuned, would you be okay with being capped or gearing slower, to the tune of 10% slower in /played to acommadate for your putting less effort into the making of the group? freeing you up to do other things more efficiently?
Would you gear to prebis a full 4 days slower if it meant you got to do dailies or craft while queuing?
Again im not saying you should, im testing the waters for what you realistically would give it for the convenience
so this is exactly what we’ve all been saying about rdf’s introduction making it effectively compulsory. Im not asking if RDF should be included, please dont derail the thread.
Im essentially asking about that bonus and what its worth to you. At what point does it become compulsory. What amount of efficiency would you be willing to give up in heroics to make up for your added benefit doing dailies running around crafting and gathering etc?
4 days in the lifetime of the expansion is not going to matter for an average player. For tryhards? maybe, but for the average player that isn’t taking a week off work when wrath releases?
so you see know this is another venue of compromise. ask anyone. ANYONE, who is anti RDF, if theyd be okay with it if it was less effecient than your average manual group invitee and see how they react.
What if to do your badge dailies you could do 1 preconstructed heroic quest OR 5 RDF heroics?
There we go, a well thought out response. So the oportunity cost for a “better gameplay experience” should be an inane dip inefficiancy, to the tune of 50-60% thats snowballs as people are less and less willing to forgo that time efficiency, as well as the effort of putting a group together?
What should the opportunity cost for a better gameplay experience be?
Now this is acting as if the two systems are equal, they arent. There is the base experience, which the new system should be compared against. in RDF you skip alot of effort, and you free yourself up to do other things, what should your opportunity cost be?
because at the end of the day that “Better gameplay experience” is baseline and RDF is the iteration. I wouldnt expect you to have taken logic courses if youre struggling with highschool math tho.
(for anyone interested, this a parellel conversation to one where Zir has had some significant problems with reading comprehension, staying on topic, and mathematical/statistical concepts.
Doesnt exist and this is what the cryers want. Sit in dalaran and get airlifted to a heroic for badges over and over with what may as well be 4 bots filling their roles.
Legit PUSH BUTAN COLLECT BIS. No. TBC had the right of it. Talk to people, find a comp you want/need for the dungeon, get to it, summon bodies, clear it. Move on.
What would make you feel less compulsed to utilize this system? If there was no cap on badges in premades? if you could only get 1 peice of gear from an rdf run per day? a 20% /played tax in badges per hour? 40%? 60? at what point would it go unused then?
The Pro-RDF have already suggested things like this. Having the heroic lock out of old so they could random into a second and third run of heroic culling of stratholme to get their shield of whatever.
We presented this nerf to the system, and several other that took out every benefit it brought outside of the automated grouping. The anti-rdf crowd still shut it down.
It was never a case of RDF being bad or good for the game. It is entirely an argument of them believing RDF leads to the “downfall” of WoW and having it in any form will lead to the same thing.
Going over your specific points here. A badge cap is would already be a thing with the suggested heroic locking still being impactful, a.k.a. you can only run each heroic once a day. Personal loot is an entirely unneeded or desired system that wouldn’t benefit either Anti-RDF or Pro-RDF side. One piece of gear is a bad suggestion. At this point, you are just trying to make RDF worse than forming the group yourself. Thus not giving the Pro-RDF side RDF at all. Something with Blizzard is already doing with their LFG Tool that basically makes forming your own group worse than it is in TBC.
Would I support it? Yeah, strip all the extra things from RDF and give what RDF is at its core. Automated group formation, it would be good. Simply having it match and say what dungeon it matched for so players can’t lie, queue for everything, and say they only queued for a specific dungeon.
Strip the teleport to dungeon.
Strip the ability to run more then a single lockout of a heroic in a day.
Strip the extra rewards such a badges, gear (when leveling), and gold.
Strip the Luck of the Draw buff
Strip it down to is core.
We would still support it, and use it.
You want to hinder it further then that? Then no, we wouldn’t support it because at that point you aren’t giving us a choice. You are forcing your choice unto us by punishing us for choosing differently from you. Something that was never the case the other way around.
As for “gearing equally” (which they already were). How in the world would you quantify that? As the fastest a person can gear “Manually” is faster than RDF if both are held to the dungeon lockouts. While the Slowest is behind RDF. Are you just going to attempt to drag RDF down to the slowest player? While the Fastest player would still Blitz an unnerfed RDF Player?
… and to be clear the two types of manual players I’m referring to are the One who chooses to group with friends and guildies which would blitz RDF in terms of gearing speed and the slowest being dps players with no friends, no guild, who is also unwilling to form a group themselves. RDF is somewhere about a Tank/Healer buddy duo that just needs to recruit random DPS and hope for the best.
Isn’t it obvious? RDF users get a “Worse gameplay experience”, “Less community and social interaction”, and “less community” in general. Is that not the argument for the removal of the system in the first place? That all those things are better? Why does one need to enforce it then? If they are better and bring so much joy to gameplay. We should obviously seek it out with our leisure time should we not? I mean an RDF that provides no additional benefit outside of automated group formation. If such things are more fun, our “opportunity cost” is giving up said fun time. Thus wasting a resource we can never get back by trading out fun social interaction for boring waiting for queue pops.