Oh yeah, I remember a time in game where healers wanted to be tipped for rezzing you. That sparked a neuron.
? Have you not seen the cosmic map? There literally are just dimensions of energy sources to draw from. That is where they come from. There is a whole dimension of light, one of void, both dimensions collided at one point that created another dimension called the twisting neither that spit out all sorts of energy sources. The elements are by products of this, fel is another by product of this event. All became sentiment.
The only truly enigmatic energy source is spirit, which is tied to all living things and Titans.
That is it.
Goblins don’t need reverence to draw the light from the light dimension. You literally only need willpower, which the devs have stated since vanilla and W3. You just need to have the will to use the light, a very very strong will. Any form of doubt and you lose said power like Arthas did with Stratholme and goblins are not creatures to doubt what they are doing.
Blizzard always did their paladins differently from other fantasies. In diablo it is because humans are offsprings of both angels and demons and have the potential to use the light.
In wow, it is just an energy source that needs willpower to use like the green lanterns. Each race has their own way in drawing on it.
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Not yet. If i said it once i said it 123234353453 times, they said they’ll be rolling out all race/class combos (aside from Evoker possibly) over an undetermined amount of time, assuming they stick to their word anyway.
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And honestly, it is just about time. We already know goblins use the light.
Hoping their mount is a blinged out hot rod. Fits with goblins using the willpower out of greed to use the light. Be decked out in golden light.
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races are not monolithic and do not all believe and act in the same exact way like mindless automatons.
From what source they draw from, sometimes requires more than others. The Elements don’t want doubt and lack of confidence as we’ve seen out of Cataclysm with Thrall. While the Light is the same but it requires, like you said, Willpower but it also requires said reverence to something to in turn give them the ability to wield significant holy-infused power. Let it be a deity, or just The Light itself (or otherwise another similarly vague yet connected source). You cannot bypass that requirement, let alone have a goblin not think selfish in the slightest. The Light have FAR more demands to allow a Paladin. You NEED to be devoted to it for a reason.
Back then WC3 wasn’t as indepth in its Lore any more than we knew at the time we played WC3 when we thought we knew more when those that played WC2, and same goes for during WC1. Hell, we used to be calling Eastern Kingdoms Azeroth for the time because the Lore wasn’t build up that deep at the time. And we didn’t know about Demons the way we did until WC3, and the same deal about the Light until WoW.
It still doesn’t change how back then, it was simpler because the Alliance had better faith at the time and were thought to be the only ones to use The Light and not the Horde. And now, we’re reaching a turning point where all Races are getting something because we’re not NPCs but even then, we’re still bound by Lore ingame (without considering RP and all that, whole can of conversations there…) and people are still trying to question how Goblins can be Shamans despite the most simplest of explanations but Paladins? That requires FAR more questions that isn’t currently possible to explain besides speculation but we know how EVERY race got their Paladin Class from so far. Everything that Paladins done, are driven through, like you said, Faith and Willpower but it isn’t that simple as its driven by expression in one form or another of The Holy Light. Goblins aren’t Religious, period. The only thing they believe in is opportunity and whatever profit gets them further.
I’m still not trying to knock anything down that we shouldn’t have Goblin Paladins but I don’t want a terrible reason for it. Even a Lightforged Warlock made a lot of sense despite how simple it is, study demons and their weaknesses while having far more control over them as a Warlock. We just need one for Goblins for Paladins and we’re set. I just don’t see it in its current state.
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Again, you’re still trying about back to reverence, stopped reading there because no,you do not. We already seen this with the scarlet crusade as well. You just need willpower.
And how do goblins do that? Through greed and the knowledge of the light having the ability to make them money. That is it.
Nothing more. No gods, no naa’ru, which are just light creatures, no nothing. Just knowing light = money and them knowing that is enough for them to have willpower to use it.
Goblins also know there is tech to make light batteries, from the army of light. It doesn’t take much for a goblin to harness both.
Again, you’re only thinking of paladins via the church of the holy light. That isn’t how all races draw on it. Especially not the Arathi or Blood elves. One sees it as a sacred flame and the other drawns from a sunwell. Both are a combination for arcane and light
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Void Elves can become priests…shouldn’t a race corrupted by the void be wholly unable to use the light or as Bigfel said , willpower?
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Think they just can’t see that not all races need to have a belief system or reverence of the light to use said light. Some just need to know it works.
Most of them will use faith our a proxy like the Arathi and blood elves. But some will just use pure willpower.
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Undead as well. I can understand faith in a way but the Undead were created by the exact opposite. Death.
I remember a long time ago there was a discussion on them and one thing stood out that I remember. The priests go through extreme pain when using the light. So the willpower needed has to be higher than most.
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Yeah, the forsaken who use the light still have extreme faith in the light still or the will to use it. Another is the prelates. Majority of the prelates lost their abilities to use the light since they got it via proxy from the king of Loas. Seems only the ones that still believe in other loas or the power itself still use the light, which isn’t many, lore wise.
Let us not forget the Titans and Titan Keepers like Tyr. They didn’t use faith to wield the light as an energy source, they just took it via willpower or technology.
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Isn’t the goblin priest trainer in their starting zone standing on a pile of gold, because she’s using religion to fleece people of their money via donations?
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The problem with Ren’dorei is they’re infused as a race, they can wield The Light and avoid mishaps but infused with another, and just happens to be The Light, a polar opposite. We’d get quite the bang if they don’t handle it right. Priests aren’t infused like how Demon Hunters are with Fel, Paladins are very similar with Demon Hunters in that behavior.
Its probably their biggest hurdle, not blowing up and creating another Twisting Nether on us or at least what we’re believed to know but if they manage to gather both together, they can use Twilight Magic that way.
There’s a reason I stated “Expression” in form of The Holy Light. You don’t use ANY other form of Light. Otherwise you’re not using Holy. Even many accounts state that “Similar use” goes back to being used as The Light even when it comes off as heretical to assume. Velen stated how Elune’s Tear shouldn’t have unlocked Xe’ra’s message unless it was a Prime Naaru and yet Elune as we had known is anything but Holy at one point. She’s a EXPRESSION of The Holy Light. An’she, a Tauren’s source for their Holy Light, is in some way related to Elune, The White Lady. A EXPRESSION of The Holy Light. Rezan, a Loa of Kings, giving Faith into the Zandalari people and even after he died, still hold reverence to him but their powers are given elsewhere, a Expression of The Holy Light.
Blood Elves once siphoned it off a living Naaru before it was used into the revival of the Sunwell which they are far more faithful and indebted to ever since. Arathi uses the Sacred Flame as their expression in that form. Its bright, and warm. Much like how we ALWAYS known about The Holy Light no matter who it is from, we’ve yet to fully understand how and why but we can speculate through either their Emperor (Who might be a bag of bones infused with The Light based on the leaks) or something else entirely.
Goblins don’t have any finding in The Light in their own culturistic expression that ends up tying to The Holy Light. I am not “Using The Church of Holy Light” as the only means that leads to Paladins. That was the early Alliance’s earliest way to tap into their faith to overcome the darkest of evils that plagued Azeroth (Eastern Kingdoms) wrought by the Orc. Goblin can use The Light in some tapped source, like how Blood Elves did originally but then how would other races see it? They wouldn’t really be faithful, they’d probably even nab a Naaru to pull this off or something typical of Goblins. Goblins have to give into something and if all is met correctly, will give back to them.
Yeah, the idea behind goblins using the light is American Televangelists, but with actual power.
? They’re beings of the holy light and I highly suspect thinking Elune is one, which I do not. That isn’t canon so I will ignore everything you said about her. That is something only Velan suggested which got shut down quick.
So yeah, others might get their holy light from expressions. Goblins do not. End of story. They just get it from the source itself.
Also the Arathi and blood elves talked and stated how they used the light is not the same as the humans. They don’t express themselves in faith. They literally absorb it from the source, via the scared flame or the sunwell, which both are a mixture of arcane and light
There’s a whole thread about it in the story forums about it.
This got people angry because it is also the reason why necromancy can be used via the light. Since it all stems from it just being an energy source and magic used with said source might have different effects but it is still that magic. Necromancy with the light is still just necromancy
Now you might hate this, but blame blizzard. They’re the ones that turned all the cosmic forces into marvel infinity stones with their own properties and ways to harness it.
Also, trolls, outside the prelates, learned how to use the light via books. No lie, you can see this happen in the ashbringer comic, which made a human super angry because how dare the light choose him
Nah, the troll just read the book, learned about the light and learned to harness it.
That’s what I LOVE about Blizzard, they took a idea what Necromancy normally was and called it a art form, not a particular spell, it wasn’t founded until those of The Shadowlands in Maldraxxus. And we are exposed to it EVERY TIME, ALL sources of cosmological forces use Necromancy in some form. We see it in The Light, Void, death (Obviously), Order, and Life, ALL of it. Even The Elements have it. We have the very spells and we just don’t call it Necromancy at face value except for when its involving Undeath. Its unique to Blizzard in this fashion that oddly reminds me of Magicka where spells are combined (Or dangerously self-inflicting). Besides the point of the topic…
The issue with Blood Elves is that would mean ALL of the Blood Elves are innately Holy, they aren’t. They still have to have that sort of nuance to let them. Or there would be some issues in it. Its why we aren’t given anything holy-based as far as racial goes and we’re still siphoning things as we go as Blood Elves. Heck, Blood Elves can still go around all of this and just learn the same way as anyone else in fact, or any culture’s way of,
“The greatest strength of a paladin is their conviction, that determination to strive to be good in all things.”
The Troll’s instance… Wouldn’t know because I never read the comics… That said, if it was from a literature that gave them faith, it is just means to instill the same manner that others have gone through. If anything just goes back to what I mentioned about anyone can learn from another’s cultural as reference and achieve the same results. Though its something I wish Blizzard did explore, be interesting to hear more about other races delving into another’s approach to The Light besides what we seen in Hallowfall initially over the Sacred Flame being “similar yet different.”
I’m sorry, I’m not going to read all that tonight. Already 4 drinks deep and going on my 5th. Have a happy new year.
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Zandalari Paladins are a gameplay similarity, not a lore-one. Prelates draw power from the Loa, specifically Rezan, which makes them nature aligned, not Light aligned. Like Sunwalkers, they’re arguably much closer to your average Druid than they are the Paladins of races which worship the Light like Humans, Blood Elves and Draenei.
You’ve got it backwards. WoW paladins are absolutely dependent on faith.
Like Anduins entire arc post-Shadowlands has been that he lost the use of the Light because he believed he did wrong and needed to come to truth that it wasn’t his fault he was MC’d by the Jailer.
Paladins abilities in WoW are universally tied to their personal faith, which is why you can have a goodie two shoes like Anduin lose his powers over something he had zero control over, but you can also have a Scarlet Crusader be manipulated by a demon into purging innocents and still have use of the Light.
You’ve got it backwards. WoW paladins are absolutely dependent on faith.
No, they are not, just willpower but faith can be a source of willpower, which it is for many.
Like Anduins entire arc post-Shadowlands has been that he lost the use of the Light because he believed he did wrong and needed to come to truth that it wasn’t his fault he was MC’d by the Jailer.
That is doubt playing into it, like the green lanterns, doubt and fear makes you lose willpower, which makes you not be able to use the light.
Paladins abilities in WoW are universally tied to their personal faith, which is why you can have a goodie two shoes like Anduin lose his powers over something he had zero control over, but you can also have a Scarlet Crusader be manipulated by a demon into purging innocents and still have use of the Light.
Exactly my point. ANDUIN uses faith. The Scarlet Crusade uses faith. Both of these faiths tap into their willpower. Anduin started to doubt and lost his willpower, which is what made him lose his power.
Goblins do not have faith. They only have knowledge and willpower. They know the light exists, they know it can make them money. Their greed taps into the willpower to use it. Not faith.
Holy power is Summoned by emotions willpower or faith in one’s ability to do so
From the wow’s own source. Can’t link the link, but just google it.
The best part about Goblin shamans is they don’t even get their power in a good way. They coerced the elements. Priests do have shadow, so that’s not a good element. And monks aren’t necessarily good, they’re merely in tune with the spirits, which according to Chinese mythology is not always a good thing. You can be an angry or power-hungry/selfish monk, like Devadatta who is like a devil figure against Buddha (sort of, depends on the story).