Sure but BoS has one way to get KM stack. With Oblit, you have two. That’s why this post was made.
Definitely! I’m not sure if one would want to ever reach 2 stacks during PoF window. But, on a flip side of the coin it’s also not advisable to stack 2 of them outside of it.
I’m also in for an idea that Obliteration (and only Obliteration) allows to get 2 stacks of KM while PoF is active. Much like Mind Blast for VF.
It’s probably also the nature of BoS’ indefinite duration what makes the logs favor it. Not sure Chillpills would like this idea of stacking KM only works with Obliteration but the scenario of where your KM would be wasted occurs during PoF window without changing the already existing playstyle you have when you’re not in PoF.
Looking at Halondrus the top DW Obliteration player got 137 KM procs, and was only able to use 96 of them. Thats 41 missing KM over an 8.5 minute fight.
Top 2h had 77 KM procs and was only able to use 56 of them. 21 missing over 7.5 minute fight roughly.
Hard to actually tell how many is within the PoF window, and how many are happening outside of that window. DW will absolutely make better use of KM stacking.
2h at max from what I have seen is doing 35k Obliterates max. So we can say on average maybe 28k?
DW Obliterate max is about 24k from what im looking at so about 19.5kish average? Thats a 30% decrease for both numbers roughly.
So those missing KM would be almost 800k damage for DW and only 588k damage for 2h.
At least on that fight… thats not looking too good and thats not including GA damage, thats just Obliterate alone. GA depends on if it crits or not, but lets just average it to around 8000 to account for both. Its not perfect but its just napkin math since both 2h and DW hit GA at around the same amount depending on ilvl.
2h would be 168k more damage, DW would be 328k more damage from GA generated by those missing KM procs if we were able to stack to 2.
Its not perfect, but its just adding even more to DW than 2h by about double. Or even 25% more just to account for different fights and better players.
I really dont want any more complaining about 2h and DW, just leave it be, its about the best as its going to get and that was just with Obliteration, that wasnt going into BoS
dk needs changes for sure, many dead talents and not a lot of meaningful ones either. I hate that most of our honor talent tree is defensive and not many damage choices, Chillstreak should be a pve talent, Icecap and obliteration need to be in seperate rows, spell eater for frost or legion ams cleanse i think was called mirrorball to replace permafrost
Can’t even remembered if I posted to support this but, yes!
When I do play some m+ as oblit to help guildies with weeklies, just from what I can recollect I’ll get overlaps at least once every pillar, sometimes twice or more. This would be a wonderful change to sneak some more oblits in during pillar.
Weird to see a Druid player argue against this, not weird to see kelliste poo poo something just to be contrarian though.
If you’re having rune issues during Pillar, you’re likely not pooling properly or doing something wrong, I’ve rarely found this to be an issue (km stacking would likely not impact this with proper play), and when I have its most certainly because I made a mistake or miss used a global.
And I thought you said it was going to be the bees knees with the 4pc… so why are you asking for buffs. You were singing praises not to long ago getting 11k overall dps in M+… BoS players were getting 15k overall dps in M+ but details shmetails… 2h is GREAT… right?.. no? Still needs buffs because band aids dont last forever get lose and eventually fall off?
Just looking through the KM procs compared to PoF windows with Obliteration, 2h looks pretty normal with a few times that KM procced twice negating the first proc. DW on the other hand would benefit much more. Some of these happened outside of the window for 2h, but it happened much more with DW.
Its the end of the expansion, have some fun, and look at the new overambitious talent system that is probably not actually going to happen because I see no way to hit the design goals. Do you?
So if we think about it, 7.5 minutes = 8 PoF windows
If we assume a forced KM proc every other global, we can safely assume 6 KM procs per PoF window
That puts us at 48 KM procs alone from inside PoF windows in only 96 seconds of the fight (out of 450). That gives us 354 seconds to proc the remaining 29 KM procs. Comes down to being able to proc a KM every 12 seconds (seems reasonable) outside of PoF windows
Now I haven’t bothered to raid anything this tier past LFR, so I’m not sure what the Halondrus fight looks like at Heroic/Mythic levels, but what would cause you to lose uptime on the boss (aside from moving phase) and lose out on a KM proc?
Even if we assumed that there were 2 overwriting KM procs per PoF window, that only accounts for 16 of the 29 missed procs. (Not going under the assumption that they’d pop PoF unless they were able to utilize the entire window).
First of all, I’m not asking for buffs. I was just poking you because I knew you would explode in a massive rant . Mission accomplished .
Secondly when I was talking about my 11k overall I was talking about when I got 2pc in like the second week. It was a reflection of the 2pc boost of dps, nothing to do with 2h or singing praises about my dps. 11k is ok for season 2 but rookie numbers for season 3. With 4pc I’m getting 17-18k overall at 265 ilvl. But as expected BoS is still king of AoE, and can do over 20k in bigger keys. The 4pc has made obliteration much more viable for pushing beyond +20s which im happy about. I will add though that obliteration is preferred over BoS for +15 or lower with good groups, because packs die too fast to utilise breath.
All this m+ advice is wasted on you though, you don’t seem to play so you probably don’t care.
Btw, you might be interested in the more recent logs of 4pc 2h frost players keeping 5stacks of RI for over 90% of the fight. I remember you were pretty hellbent in declaring they couldn’t.
The 2stacks of KM would be a welcome change. It’s not NEEDED, but considering the little effort it would take the Devs to add with no tuning required it seems like an easy plus.
I don’t know why these threads always turn into a mess. People seem to get so nasty.
Sure it would be an easy plus, but the thing is…it was really brought up or asked about until this last patch and people acquired their 4 piece sets. And that’ll go away in the next patch, or whenever the next expansion comes out (whichever is first).
And as such, the change is unwarranted. Wasn’t a problem for the last 1.5 years, and now suddenly it is? It’s not needed nor warranted because for the majority of the expansion, the chances of overlapping KM procs was extremely minimal (still kinda is even). And once the tier set goes away and the over inflated stats disappear, then it wouldn’t have mattered anyway.
Dev time would be better spent on something that impacts the class on a more functional level. But as Frost hasn’t been touched all expansion, I wouldn’t be holding my breath.
If someone had mentioned it in season1 of SL I would have had the same supportive opinion. It’s not a spec breaking issue, clearly. But it adds some flexibility to the rotation and counters a small inconvenience of losing some KM procs during PoF.
No harm just doing it. The 4pc magnifies the problem, but it still exists without 4pc.
That’s great and all…except for the fact that no one did because the actual times it happened in S1 were abysmal at best. And it doesn’t happen often enough now to warrant the change.
I understand it. I do. But it only applies to the 4 piece and increased crit on top of inflated crit as is, and it disappears with the next patch.
As Kelle pointed out, I’d rather the change to Runic Empowerment, so that way the change affects the entire spec by allowing more runes to be up more often and lowering the chances that you’re actually globaled and risking KM overlapping.
And this is a change that wouldn’t become irrelevant in the next patch and/or loss of tier sets. It would be a fundamental change that’s beneficial going forward and not a temporary QoL.
Because the guides say that Obliteration > BoS with the 4 piece. It’s easier to take someones word than do the research yourself. /shrug nothing against it, but I’m assuming that has a lot to do with it.
… Again, that only most often happens during Obliteration PoF window.
… And Runic Empowerment occurs from RP which costs GCD (unless BoS) to your Rune Spending abilities which also cost GCD. So “reducing your chances of KM overlap” statement referencing RE is would not likely happen.
I’d like for RE to be changed too into an accruing RNG. But that has nothing to do with KM procs.
Odds may be small but it still happens. A 1% is still better than 0.
Getting a KM proc while fishing runes is fine.
If you got a KM proc naturally by spending RP, the next global you’ll probably use is to hit Obliterate (or Frostscythe). Or, start a RW or use Death’s Due since it’s the point you’ll least likely to get another natural proc.
Considering RP and KM have no interaction with each other, unless you’re using Frost Strike during Obliteration window which is a completely different story (In this case, a forced KM proc), they have nothing to do with each other.
If you’re rune starved, for whatever reason, to use 2 stacks of KM outside of Obliteration window. You’re definitely playing the spec wrong.
That wasn’t the argument. Have you never depleted Runes outside of a PoF window and gotten a proc and were unable to use it because you didn’t have the runes? So you’re burning RP to fish for a Rune to be able to use Oblit/KM proc?
It happens, and it happens more often in the 48 seconds outside of the PoF window than overlapping KM procs happens in a PoF window.
One change affects 80% of game play, the other affects 20%. One will be constant and affect the spec on a functional level going forward, the other is temporary and will be displaced in a couple months.
I understand wanting things. But fixing issues at a functional level should hold a higher priority.
Not really, unless you used Obliterate 3 times in a row without KM for some reason. It nearly happened to me a couple of times on my Rolling RW build in 9.1. I use Obliterate without KM to feed the storm and try to maximize the value of RE as much as possible. The rune starvation happens if you spend a couple of globals on Obliterate without KM procs.
In case of a KM proc, I NEVER use the last 2 runes. This was NOT an Obliteration build so 2 KMs stacking (if that was possible) wouldn’t be an issue since KM is an accruing RNG based on RNG (Crit). Since 4 runes depleted is the best time to use FS to fish for that one rune.
The tierset pieces inflates stats, sure. 2pc gives crit during RW and 4pc gives KM value while reducing RI value. There are a couple of patches that Obliteration AND Icecap were great alternatives to BoS. Such a shame a couple of changes do not carry out forward (I’m looking at Icy Citadel)
I’d like to think that DF would solve that issue in the long term. I’d have to look at the talent tree. In the meantime, I don’t think they’ll do something with HyperLUL Presence or the pure RNG nature of RE.
Because that’d make BoS build this patch even more meta.
. Mission accomplished 
.