I don’t remember the last time we’ve had lore that is essentially “2 + 2 = 3”
I swear this forum is 50% ignoring evidence we don’t personally like for arbitrary reasons like “It’s a book” or “this is dumb”
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They might as well just retcon Halls of Reflection.
“The Shadowlands story pulls together threads that started in Warcraft 3” = “We’re retconning more lore, including from Warcraft 3, to make it fit with this stuff we made up last week.”
They might as well rename it the Halls of Retcon.
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We’ll find out in the Sylvanas book.
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I dont really know what Uther has to teach Sylvanas?
She wanted revenge on Arthas, and never got it. He was able to see Arthas thrown in to the Maw. Is he going to teach her how to be better at getting revenge?
Uther didn’t trick civilizations into war to cause death to feed souls to an evil creature. I don’t think he can talk shop with her on that, either.
I really dont see how he is going to be a mentor.
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I don’t know. I guess how to process getting her soul fragment back and whatever that entails.
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I’m mostly okay with some retcons to character motivations and puppet masters behind the curtains when those characters / events that were retconned did not have much doing for them in the first place. A prime example is Deathwing, Azshara (post WotA) and N’zoth. In WC2, Deathwing was just your typical evil dragon who did evil things. Something that blizzard was going to continue with in their cancelled point and click adventure game, Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans. In the WC3 manual, Azshara and how her and her highborne loyalists became Naga was more of a footnote that didn’t go that deep into exploring how and why. From memory it was just the Well of Eternity imploding and something along those lines. It felt very passive.
The first of these “retcons” came in Day of the Dragon. Where the novel made Deathwing into a more cunning and manipulative character instead of a generic evil dragon (ironic, as that is what he became during Cataclysm, at least in game). Then came the WotA trilogy which expanded (for better or worse depending on who you talk to) the origins behind Deathwing. It is revealed that Deathwing was once a Dragon Aspect who was driven insane by these things called, “The Old Gods”. This got expanded upon in Cataclysm and other material. Mainly the Charge of the Aspects short Story where Deathwing tells Thrall that he sided with the Old Gods willingly. Dawn of the Aspects shows us what Neltharion was like in his youth. Why Tyr and later Khaz’goroth felt that he was worthy of receiving the charge of the Earth Warder. Unfortunately, the gift that Khaz’goroth gave him was a curse in his eyes and the Old Gods (mainly N’zoth) would reward him by freeing him of that curse if he did what they asked. Ultimately Neltharion did not have the willpower, nor the strength to hold such a burden. Khaz’goroth was wrong in believing that Neltharion had the strength and will to do the task at hand. And we all saw how N’zoth was going to keep up his end of the bargain in End Time. The Old God of Corruption never said how he would remove the “curse”.
For Azshara and her Naga, the WotA trilogy gave Azshara some actual character. Acting more like Sheev from Star Wars during the Clone Wars. Her public persona is that of a benevolent leader who wants what’s best for her people. In truth she was a manipulative _____ who only cares about herself. This worked to her advantage as the Night Elven resistance for a long time believed that Azshara was held hostage by the evil Xavius. That was until Tyrande learned the truth when she was kidnapped by Xavius’ Satyrs at the end of book 2. She was also very talented and strong in the Arcane. This made demons like Mannoroth actually fear her. So it comes to no surprise that the Old Gods would find a use for her. And what better time to lure her in then when she is at her lowest point. The Empire she built is now in ruins because of her. We know she ultimately accepted the deal but the trilogy doesn’t go that deep in the details. Hence Warbringers Azshara. Probably one of the best cinematics Blizzard has done recently. Where even facing death in the face, she had the guts to refuse N’zoths offer unless she retained her position of a Queen.
Blizzard turned some rather one-note characters into interesting characters (although they butchered one of them in the end) by tying their stories to N’zoth. Whom was first mentioned at a Blizzcon and was name dropped in Dragon Soul. Before that came Stormrage where Malfurion saw the true mastermind behind the Nightmare. If only for a few seconds. The description hints towards who would later be N’zoth. While Chronicles would make it that it was Yogg-saron who created it. N’zoth was still the one who used it. So then we have Legion and the Emerald Nightmare plot building up N’zoth. The only downside to N’zoth, like Deathwing before him was that he was wasted.
Meanwhile Zovaal doesn’t have that. Instead Blizzard just latched him onto the events of WC3, Wrath of the Lich King and Edge of Night because they wanted to build up this new big bad. Even though those events already had efficient build up and development. Did we really need to know that Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination were created by the Jailer? No. We already had an origin for both. They were created by the Dreadlords for the Legion. The WotA trilogy would later have the Dreadlords practice necromancy. Basically acting as retroactive foreshadowing to the creation of the Lich King.
The key difference between N’zoth and the Jailer though? One had retcons made to material that were basically footnotes that was begging to be built upon. The other took things that already had definitive lore and was already built upon just to make him seem important without actually making him feel like an actual character. For the former, there was enough time in between the details to allow people to accept the changes. The latter doesn’t do that. Instead presenting these retcons in the same expansion the character first appeared in. Also both of these villains were imprisoned. But one feels like an actual character and the other one feels like an blank piece of paper.
Ultimately there is a right and wrong way to do things. Having small but important retcons spread out over a period of time which mainly focuses on minor details or “footnotes” is better than just dumping a large chuck of retcons all at once and expect the audience to accept it. One respects the audience, the other screams pure arrogance. It is why I feel like Sylvanas and Zovaal should’ve taken the N’zoth / Azshara approach. Have Sylvanas reject Zovaals offer at first. Then as she started to lose more and more Val’kyr, she would accept it (at her lowest point). Hence why I feel that Sylvanas siding with Zovaal should’ve happened after the Darkshore warfront where she was down to 3 remaining Val’kyr. That way Mueh’zala manipulating Vol’jin was basically Zovaals way of luring Sylvanas back to him. Keep Sylvanas in the dark about this. That way her inner monologues from Before the Storm remain consistent. You can’t hide in the shadows when you are now the Warchief of a global superpower. Get rid of the War of Thorns. Instead start BFA with the Alliance attacking the Undercity. Let the Alliance be proactive.
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Wow… blizzard I am stunned. I never even realized the most perfect pairing of all. Sylvuther… its gonna be glorious. Cant wait to commission art of them holding hands.
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Hey, I can quote myself again:
Uther is in Bastion to expose players to split/damaged souls, the angst of split/damaged souls in the story, and develop the turnkey plot-device of “Compassion”.
It’s likely that Uther is around for what comes up with Sylvanas.
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Careful, if you keep being right about the plot people will start to suspect you wrote it and you don’t want that.
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Oh boy, this is going to be…interesting.
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…plz no…
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OMG please make the Uther/Sylvanas interaction happen! I NEED this in my life!
I have spoken at length about this dynamic so Im excited to say the least. The only thing that is making me confucius is the line about Uther not having a guide.
I’m missing something from that quote, Uther clearly had guides…
Is the guidance he received retconned now or am I looking at that quote wrong?
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Probably retconned. These idiots probably don’t even know what they had for breakfast.
“Uther didn’t have guidance”.
Kleia, Pelagos, Thenios and myself be like…
“WAT”
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Srry guys, but in the Elune cinematic “she had a choice: vengeance or renewal”
If you’re night fae covenant you see Tyrande talking to some Spirits about how she choose Renewal.
So there it is, Tyrande arc is closed.
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It’s possible that Blizzard simple viewed them as helpers over guiders or were looking at it from the perspective as the whole soul split/reunite thing, in which while the Kyrians did help they didn’t have that same experience to help better guide him through it. At least that’s I think thats how the writing staff could view the matter.
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Then they are splitting hairs.
The Paragon of Wisdom identified the problem, and provided very specific directions to Uther; giving him guidance through the entire ordeal. I mean they are literally inside his memories with him guiding him. He “replayed” the experience but they were right there in his memories talking him through it.
The underlying question and point, is what will he guide Sylvanas through that wasn’t done for him? IMO the answer is nothing.
That statement makes it seems like Uther had no guidance when he clearly did, so why are they making such a claim? Am I to be amazed at how Uther is guiding Sylvanas in ways that he wasn’t? What can Uther possibly do for Sylvanas that wasn’t done for him by his super angelic therapist?
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Also just having a woman be guided through her trauma by a guy who was the mentor of her original abuser, who is still MIA I’ll add, is just
There’s so many layers of cringe that it’s making me head spin
And if they add Calia, the sister of her original abuser, into the mix like lmao
It’s setting themselves up for disaster
On top of exacerbating “Horde Heroes can only be good by kneeling to the Alliance Heroes” trope.
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Uther sat in a golden field for what could have been ions receiving help from a flipping Paragon and then went on to receive guidance/help from a team of angelic therapist. Meanwhile Sylvanas had her soul ripped from whatever happy afterlife she sensed only to have her soul split and further twisted via necromancy.
What can Uther possibly teach Sylvanas when all he did was replay the past with the help of god therapist at his back? Don’t get me wrong I’m 100% here for him trying to help her cope with her soul being split, but I think maybe idk the Primus father of necromancy should probably take a stab at it, at least address the ill effect of necromancy. Something Uther never suffered.
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