9.2 info thread for jaded players enjoying the warmth of the continuous Shadowlands dumpster fire

I’ve said this before, but I’m less inclined to criticize the plot for it’s own sake, and more just regretful that it has been done so poorly. You can tell these kinds of stories, and something being bigger than the Titans (who always felt more like Olympians than true primordial mythological Titans, anyway, IMO) isn’t inherently bad or stupid.

But, man, you gotta put care into it. You need time. And you need cinematics. You need the player to be able to react to the world and the world to react to the player, if this is the kind of story you want to tell.

I used to kinda roll my eyes every time someone brought up FFXIV in an unrelated thread, so forgive me for doing it and believe me when I say I understand if this annoys anybody, but I just can’t believe how much your character feels connected to that world and the people, even as a silent protagonist. I used to kind of shill for Blizzard and cover up for them and say, “You can’t really make a silent protagonist in an MMO feel that ingratiated into a story,” but I was totally wrong about that and you CAN, entirely through other characters’ dialogue and a few very linear dialogue choices made by the player.

If they want to tell this sort of intense, emotive, character-driven story that they seem to want to tell, then by all means do it. But do it right.

And if you can’t do it right, either because of lack of ability or Bobby’s greed or something, that’s regrettable, but I totally understand. Lots of beloved games including many MMOs, including Vanilla WoW, ran off of very little “story.”

But what you can’t do is tell the kind of story you’re telling - with character drama, and geopolitics, and questions of morality in war, and complicated cosmic magic systems, etc - in a half-arsed way. It just doesn’t work. It’s literally worse than having little or no story.

This is true especially when you’re doing it with characters and locales people LOVE and CARE about. Burning Teldrassil is FINE if it ends up MEANING SOMETHING. And if it DOESN’T, then the players would have been happier with you just NOT EVEN TRYING TO TELL THAT STORY.

If you just wanna make cool biomes with maybe tidbits of lore that we can theorize about, and the odd whizz-bang-boom short but exciting cinematic here and there, I think I speak for a lot of players when we say we’ll accept that over… whatever is going on right now.

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this said, I still wish for Roman Ogres to be playable. It means we’ll get toga mogs for everyone!

Except worgen. You cant have togas.

I mean there are definitely positives about wow, but the issue is that instead of using those positives and expand on them they focus on making the game a chore. They need to look for new ways to keep the playbase engaged. They do have the potential to make the game great and to bring back a more positive view of itself but they will have to work hard and change the game direction. And most importantly gain the trust of the audience back. Because I want to love this game again.

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That would be the perfect opportunity to bring back Jadaar and Asric but now Lightforged and Void Corrupted.

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I don’t care if people have criticism but I’ve grown fatigued with anytime I see anything added or changed in the game I see a gigantic load in the complaint box. It’s become intrinsic to the WoW experience

I just remembered that I just :poop:ed out a better zone consept with the snip tool and doodling on a sniped version of my desktop, since I cant share it in any capacity then let me discribe it all to you because I have nothing better to do in between tossing old junk into a dumpster.

Imagine if you will an endless desert with the orbs floating over the ground pouring out endless sand, huge rock-like spires that shift and move showing a strange blue under-skin vaugely shaped like spears reaching the air at different sises.

The largest one erupting from the sand and morphing into a large tree that turns into a forest like landscape, the ground too is wood. the whole landmass on its side from the desert as floating leaves and branches making invisible trunkless trees all along its surface. Parts of the tree melting into water and twisting into a large lake that spins out into the air in the middle and twists off twards the next landmass also on its side of a mix of lava and ice.

The water itself crashing into many shards onto the landmass creating a never-ending churning ice and lava flowing everywhere, twirling iceberg’s in the air smoking like volcanos as it all melted away on the bottom to the last landmass of neon almost magical landmass.

strange pompom like trees floating into more orbs spilling magic into the air, pieces of land churning like quicksand to finaly give way to the small town for the little cridders to live in as bits and pieces of the tower-looking city floating off and being re-made constiantly from the magic of the area like constiantly growing mushrooms. the homes floating up into the air turning back to a king of sand, flowing right through the tree and landing down to make the desert once again.

Can keep the introduction of the zone, maybe make the water into glass then sand. Ill admit, writing this was alot more nicer than what i doodled but s’lot more interesting to think of than… whatever this place we got is.

Imagine, if you will…the mechanisms of the zone seem oddly…familiar. The Titan-esque architecture and feelings are never addressed but fully remarked upon.

As the zone’s storyline reaches its conclusion, you breach the final guarded doors to come face to face with…Illidan.

Turns out the Dreadlords didn’t predate the Legion at all. Zovaal was nothing more than Sargeras’ contingency plan should he effectively be contained. He was the little portion of Sargeras’ soul cast adrift on the off, one in a billionth chance that the Burning Crusade could be stopped. And Zovaal’s entire purpose for existing would be to break Sargeras free if possible, or assume the mantle himself and reignite the Crusade.

Why was Slyvanas helping him? Because she’s undead. More than that, she was an undead made via Frostmourne - a Legion artifact. It’s why Uther’s own soul shard was so corrupted. Both knew the touch of something born in the Twisting Nether. It enthralled them, even though they never knew it themselves.

The final battle of the Shadowlands is to prevent Zovaal from using this spiritual backdoor into Sargeras’ Titan Forged Prison. We will succeed, obviously but we don’t kill Zovaal. He is now master of the Burning Legion. But the Dreadlords are not the Legion unified, it will take him time to reunify all the demonic hosts if he can at all.

Worst still, Zovaal doesn’t leave alone. Anduin remains enthralled at the new Master of the Burning Crusade’s side. No longer in the trappings of a death knight but something more…Scarlet.

If the Legion is a broken, fractured thing that will take time to repair, then the scouring of Azeroth will be overseen by the Purifying Flame of the Burning legion.

Stay tuned for

World of WarCraft

Tyranny of the Light

There, I just fixed Shadowlands.

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That really is a great fix. Also could be the “afterlives” were a trap/construct and don’t negate the old lore.

It’s too bad the current team think they created something cooler than Sargeras in chain daddy :expressionless:

I can’t really speak for the various zones of Shadowlands having not partaken in the expansion itself. But overall…the Jailer is actually Sargeras this whole time. The reason Sylvanas ever went Rogue to begin with is because the Lich King/Ner’zhul and Arthas went rogue first, and Sylvanas’ Frostmourne Legion programming kicked in to foster a secondary force to deal with the Legion “traitor”.

It’s also why the Battle for the Undercity happens in WotLK. Whole thing was orchestrated to gain the Forsaken full acceptance into the Horde and thus act as a Fifth Column for the Legion (Again, entirely without their own knowledge as it was just the OG Forsaken a la Slyvanas who were direct Legion thralls).

Zovaal’s “gift” to Sylvanas before leaving was freeing her entirely from the Legion’s control and she then has to contend with the fact absolutely nothing she has done since falling to Arthas all those years ago were actually of her own volition.

Yes, it robs her of agency and thus responsibility, but imagine the character aspect there? What’s Sylvanas truly think of the Horde? Did she vehemently hate them but throughout the years of watching as a prisoner in her own mind cause her to re-evaluate them? Is she truly remorseful for burning Teldrassil or was there part of her that was satisfied to see the Kaldorei brought down a peg?

There’s places you can go there.

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I’ve never really been one who wants a Tyranny of the Light expansion but this is a really great idea that actually makes the story fit in with the existing lore. Containing the current Shdowlands zones as Titan constructions made for whatever purpose saves the proper afterlife from a generic, terrible fate lol.

I just… I just really want this new lore to go away. It adds nothing. Nothing. The First Ones do nothing the Titans couldn’t have done for the lore. I really dislike that they had to give everything an origin. Dreadlords couldn’t have just sprung up as true demons from the Nether, had to have been engineered. Literal chickens had to be designed by these guys. They didn’t evolve, apparently nothing evolved. There’s no agency.

Why can’t things just come about naturally? It’s what made Titans better creator gods, they were considered the “Makers” but in fact just made some stuff and their vast power made some mistake them for the creators of the universe. They weren’t the center of everything. It allowed the universe some agency.

The more we can get away from this absurdity the better. I’ve been desperately looking for a way out, for a way to retcon this story out of sight and mind like WoD. This would be a great way to do it.

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I mean, if I had my druthers I’d go back and make it so the Old Gods were the “Real” Gods of Azeroth prior to the Titans turning up to “order” the world, and their artificial tampering of the world drove the Old Ones mad as a result.

The emphasis is mine, because that’s where most complaints are coming from. A fatigued player base, tired of seeing things we were excited for get turned into… Zuldazar and Kul Tiras as a backdrop for a war neither had a substantial role in. Nazjatar without night elves there to notice it. De Other Side a dungeon instead of anything substansive. N’zoth as the B-Plot to an expansion that was basically just the prologue to Shadowlands, and Azshara as nothing but a speed bump along the way to said B-plot. The entirety of the infinite afterlife to explore, and we really just got reskinned and shinier Mulgore, Ashenvale, in-game Gilneas (with fancier San’layn) and the Plaguelands but more Mad Max-ish plus body horror (credit where it’s due, other than the architechture, Maldraxxus does have the least commonalities with any other in-game zone).

That’s an abbreviated list from just the last two expansions. I left a lot out. People complain about the new stuff added, because time after time the potential of that new stuff is so horribly squandered that it’s offensive. And any time people try explaining it, know what someone just has to respond with? That tried and true response that those using think is the conversation-killer none have spoken before?

Like, duh. We clearly never thought of that. Ever before.

Statements like that put everyone into a binary category; either you love the entirety of the game and dare not speak a single complaint, or quit because you cannot have fun.

I have a lot of fun. I have a lot of complaints. One does not remove the other.

I enjoy exploring old content all over again. I enjoy overgearing my lowbies and sending them off to solo dungeons to see how far I can push things. I enjoy, and I cannot for the life of me explain why, fishing in WoW. I enjoy watching others roleplay. I enjoy the gameplay of WoW.

None of that means I am anything but underwhelmed with the storyline, from BfA to present. None of that means I’m impressed that we’ll be WALKING ON WATER OMG or that trees floating in the air seems that alien after I’ve seen it in Nagrand for years or that a zone of robots is new and interesting after Mechagon gave us that plus cyborg gnomes.

I complain because I’m fatigued at the current devs’ efforts to tell a compelling story, when they can’t remember the stories of the past seventeen years that they claim to have also played.

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Thanks. I’m now legitimately upset that’s not a thing. Yet.

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Haha yeah and a lot of us did stop playing. We’re still complaining, OH WELL!!

It’s called funny, cathartic ranting with people you’ve semi-known on these forums for over 10 years :sunglasses:

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Thing with WoW, even were I tempted to resub after everything…Shadowlands is the first expansion in the history of the game I’ve zero interest in experiencing. Closest to come to it was Mists of Pandaria, which I skipped out on until the Siege cinematic lured me back into the game and I promptly fell in love with the expansion despite it being “Kung Fu Panda”.

Shadowlands is the first expansion that I see no reason to pay for. Were I ever to come back, I’ll experience Shadowlands long after it is current content and even then with the new leveling system probably never.

I think that’s the most damning thing I can say about the expansion. I might snicker at the story and come up with AU expansions, but end of the day even for all the crap I gave BfA, I bought BfA. Shadowlands has done nothing to even remotely tempt me to buy into it.

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The worst thing a piece of entertainment can be isn’t bad. The worst thing a piece of entertainment can be is boring. Cause if you’re boring, you have failed to be entertainment.

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Man, you just quantified my feelings in those words right there.

There hasn’t been an expoansion, hell not even a single big content patch, that I haven’t jumped into. A couple of times I’d resub a couple months after patch release, but mostly due to other issues at the time. And without fail, the day my resub goes through, I’m devouring the new stuff.

Except I haven’t this time. Heck, I only bothered jumping into SL at all because it was going to be with a friend who was excited to try it out. And then the completionist in me said “gotta get Renown 40 because gotta”, then did it again when I leveled my DK, but after that I just stopped. I barely touched Torghast or the Maw, whereas before I’d’ve spent months slamming my head against them. The only mounts I bothered to get either came as rewards for the renown, stockpiled anima I wasn’t going to bother throwing into a sanctum upgrade I didn’t care about, or very easy treasures. My hunter hunted nothing.

I haven’t been to my sanctum since April or May. I keep thinking “I could just go through the Oldbobos portal, do a tiny bit of questing and unlock flying in like an hour or two, just to have that”. But as soon as I look at that Oldbobos portal, I see all those other portals nearby and think about how much more fun it’d be going through one of those. Korthia awaits, and it can keep on awaiting because it doesn’t offer me anything worth investing time in.

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There’s a single comment I can bother to make that I think fits the sort of meta discussion about the nature of commentary on Blizzard news. It is as such. Blizzard has had over fifteen years to curate and construct a positive environment and community culture. Their attempts (if you can argue any were ever made) have not borne fruit. This is the way.

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anniversary mount not a guaranteed drop on kill

lol, lmao

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For me personally, it’s not just that it adds nothing but it takes something away - mystery.

Giving me answers that make no sense or make little sense or just turn out like absolute junk-tier writing, has soured me. One of aspects I loved about this game was the mystery of the ‘greater’.

I always felt like they had a bigger plan, but I never wanted to know what it was.

Half the fun was discovering little quests with hints at ‘legendary lore’ or some NPC that you’d never meet, but who had a story. Little memorials around the game, some created to honor real life Blizz folks, others created to honor imaginary heroes or villains.

Blizz has started to reveal, The Man Behind the Curtain, and as it turns out Dorothy, he’s not the Wizard you thought he was.

Not every question needs to be answered.

I didn’t want to know where everything came from or how it started. I just wanted grand adventures. They should have left the curtain closed.

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