Yeah at this point I’ll be shocked if the Life Pantheon has a sun god, extra shocked if he even vaguely resembles a Tauren
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I do not have a first hand knowledge, but I can point to a source where I’ve heard that the original aspect creation also happened during the Embrace, just like when Kalecgos became one.
Mentioned in the game, was on older warcfaft website (wow encyclopedia), likely (don’t remember, could be wrong on that) as other Brann theories, be mentioned in WoW magazine when it was a thing.
One of, not the only.
Cenarius due to his nature would not die anyway.
In a normal situation that would be the same thing.
Story of Azshara, formerly one of the most devoted worshippers of Elune, parting her ways with the goddess, is a mystery which IMO we barely have any info to draw conclusions about.
We know how this story ended with the wisps.
gl hf
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Didn’t they just make a mythbook about the earthmother? I mean, elune started as myth too.
If the earthmother is really azeroth, then the tauren worshipped the most powerfull being in known existence
None of what you said has any relevance to if Elune is a First One or not, and I stand by my previous statement accordingly.
What exactly was your previous statement?
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Ah, yes, thats true but this is a common hope of many pro horde poster since a long period of time. Even droite often argued how immense op the ne are, and thats exist no reason for it
Everytime the narrativ seems to take away a unique flair of the nightelves, you’ll be see a bunch of people like and defend this
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Yet you think your opinion on how they should be treated matters more than actual fans of the playable race.
Maybe I should start commenting on how Goblins really need to start actually having their machines break on them at the worst times possible instead of just for comedic effect when it’ll never really cost them anything. To make it more in line with what we’re told in lore. 
Good thing this narrative doesn’t exist for Night Elves as they actively reject it. The “born more special and just better” narrative is the wheel house of the Nightborne and the Sin’dorei who literally believe this to be true.
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I always find it so odd when Horde players insist on a development of the Night Elves just out of spite. For example: Elune shouldn’t be a true goddess because < insert bad reasoning > and that’s why the story is good.
Why does it even matter? Elune didn’t affect or harm the Horde in any way, at best she could help those very few Night Elf souls that we saved from the maw, but somehow that’s enough for people to hope that the past story gets retconned so that Elune isn’t a goddess anymore?
The Night Elves keeping Elune as their goddess wouldn’t have had any effect on any other race, especially not Horde races.
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This was hinted in 9.0, and we still do not know what exactly Elune is. So I think people for the most part are getting ahead of themselves.
But overall, I do not see the problem with her being on the same “cosmic level” as the Pantheons, I don’t think not being a First One would exactly hurt anything or hurt the narrative.
I have been talking to others and I wouldn’t mind the idea of her being like, in the Pantheon of Life(Or maybe one of the others? Either or), as a counterpart to the Winter Queen.
In my opinion it wouldn’t make her a lesser deity if she was not a first one. She is still Elune, still this person the Kaldorei, Tauren and many others worship.
Elune will either be a First One or a member of the Life Pantheon (or the lone leader of the Life part of the cosmology, because not all six forces need to be a pantheon necessarily, right?), but arguing over which will end up being true is wild speculation without any real evidence yet. It’s silly how many people are pretending there’s any evidence as to which of those possibilities is more likely.
EDIT: I mean, I think she’s a First One because it’s weird that she uses so many different forces and not just Life, but Blizzard plays fast and loose with this stuff, so who’s to say even. There’s no certainty to be had here.
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Yeah, I keep finding people saying this annoying, for one the WoE empowered dark trolls and made them night elves, not Elune. Elune communicated with them sometime before or after this event, and shows her more as being opportunistic to influence a race through the Well.
Second of all, night elves abandoned their superiority complexes, not to be confused with arrogance, when they threw away their Highborne culture and went back to revering nature. People forget that night elves had an era before the Highborne, they weren’t always magi. Night elves aren’t just represented through Azshara’s expansionist era., though it was a big part of their history.
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We don’t really even know what a First One is. We kinda/sorta know what they were, but what about now? Do they even still exist? If so, are they the same as they were when they created the universe as it exists?
Maybe they’re gone, expended from the effort of shaping the universe. Maybe they were significantly reduced in power and presence by that effort. Just because they originally built the universe doesn’t necessitate that there still be a group of omnipotent creator deities hanging around. That job’s done; perhaps they moved on or changed themselves in some way to better suit the universal paradigms they’d made.
As things stands it’s still entirely feasible that the various cosmic Pantheons could all be the First Ones, deliberately reborn throughout the planes of reality as less powerful beings so they could function within the cosmic systems they created and directly preserve the existential laws they put in place.
Moreover I don’t get why one would insist that potentially being part of such a Pantheon makes Elune “lesser.” Just the fact that her interventions are usually so passive and indirect is right in line with the established precedent of cosmic beings outside the Great Dark being immensely powerful in their own domains, but fundamentally limited in their ability to directly alter things in the physical plane.
Being a “true goddess” in no way certifies that she can do whatever she wants for whomever she wants. That’s rarely the case with mythical deities, in fantasy worlds especially. Unless we’re insisting that Elune simply must be the goddess, standing alone atop creation in omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence like WarCraft’s equivalent to the Abrahamic God, then it’s entirely understandable for her and any other entities on her speculative level to be subject to myriad laws and limitations on what they can do and how much they can do it.
I feel like this is partly a result of us having comparatively little context about how regular night elves lived before the demons wrecked their civilization and the world exploded. Everything about the night elf empire’s portrayal is disproportionately colored by the Highborne standard. Which is unfortunate, but in some ways not surprising, as the same goes for many historical periods IRL. Throughout most of history primarily the rich and powerful people were keeping permanent records of everything they and their peers did while the commoners, peasants and slaves weren’t recording their goings-on for the sake of posterity. In Azeroth and IRL it’s predominantly the ruins of palaces, temples and monuments (i.e. stuff built for the top tiers of societies) that recognizably last the ages, while far fewer of the ancient commoners’ living spaces survive intact through the elements and subsequent peoples building on top of them.
Consequently people have this impression that life night elf society as a whole was indulging in supremacist revelry and contempt of the outside world, when in truth though they weren’t as overtly naturalistic as they would become post-Sundering, the kaldorei masses were still a lot more rustic and down-to-earth than the Highborne class. To the point that even Azshara had to keep her disdain for Elune and hostility toward Hyjal and the powers of Nature to herself because even as her Highborne became aloof and detached, most of the regular night elf populace still seriously honored and respected those sorts of things.
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Can’t imagine why anyone might dislike you when you post things in this tone
Still waiting for my apology for that time when I corrected you on that PTR info and you somehow became even more smug when you learned you were wrong and then blocked me lol
Nah Danuser said First Ones created the cosmic pantheons and how each cosmic force “works”.
Blizzard has stated Elune is a “true god” and not something like a Titan or Old God.
Nobody has said that.
Nobody has said this, and in fact everyone makes a point in reaffirming Blizzard said Elune is a true god of WoW, not the true god.
If the First Ones are Creator Beings, then they are the true gods of WoW, and thus it makes more sense for Elune to be among them.
Actually just because they reject it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. The narrative that they are the chosen people of the only (known) true deity in WoW is fundamentally one that they are the “Born special and better” people. It’s a narrative based on them being “right” in their spirituality and others objectively being “wrong.”
They are the only ones associated with her with the Tauren shown as following a misguided and wrong version associated with her. Even the Light worshippers (the general “good” religion) seem to be wrong.
Being the blessed race of the only known true deity is inherently pretty dismissive of other racial beliefs, and also of the value of other races in general.
In some ways I see it as similar to issues with the Alliance and Horde narrative. If one faction is definitively “right” the other will always be “less right.”
With that in mind, I don’t really care if Elune is a First One, but only if they add other first ones and have some relationship elsewhere. By saying Elune is akin cosmically to the WQ, that also serves the same purpose - it removes the condition where the only (known) true deity has a favorite race. Maybe the WQ loves Gnomes. Maybe there’s a Titan that has a soft spot for Tauren.
We know nobody loves Orcs but still.
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Inferred from how every time Elune’s speculative “power level” and place in the universe comes up, the sticking points raised involve her “letting” things like Teldrassil happen or “letting” the the night elves who died there go to the Maw. Projecting the assumption that she can just choose to prevent such things from happening, or if she can, that there would be no compounded negative consequences as a result.
Some folks seem to not get that being a fictional deity doesn’t mean there are absolutely no limitations on how one can directly change things. Especially when said universe has more than one of them. When dealing with the laws of existence, this or that deity just ignoring them to forcibly make something happen is often made out to either not be possible or have a terrible cost involved.
The fact that her most overt intervention yet - the Night Warrior’s power - is so destructive to its user could even fall in line with such. That the reason Elune isn’t running around aggressively saving night elves from terrible fates all the time is because for every blunt-force divine action in the physical world, there’s an opposite reaction that carries with it a high potential for even greater harm.
It almost feels like instead of having to develop some solar god parallel to Elune that favors the Horde, they are choosing instead to pull the rug from under Elune and reduce her lmaooo
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We already know since the patch, Elune made it happen, the night elf souls serve a purpose in Ardaenwaeld, but we will know it yet.
Whether that makes it better? Well, I said months ago that Elune is playing the long game…but even if the night elf souls were sacrificed for a purpose to balance the universe…I don’t know if that’s a positive thing, so far no other god has sacrificed their own followers themselves, except for Hakkar who was considered evil for it.
And that doesn’t even get into their physical and magical aptitude either.
They’re either more or on par stronger, more agile, more magically gifted, more intelligent, and longer lived than nearly every other race in this game. They are a thrice blessed race of nearly flawless timeless beings, living in what is kind of expected to be a nearly flawless, timeless civilization. And as you said, they are expected to be the chosen children of the one true God in the Warcraft Universe. Or, at least, one of the Universal few chosen children of one of the top tier beings of this setting. Thats quite the settup for a PC race.
My god, what a conceptual power fantasy. Only the Draenei come close to the level of privilage the NEs are inherently born with or gifted. The NEs themselves may reject it, but I’m not so sure the NE players do.
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