My wife and I were hypercasuals at the time and really liked it, timeless isle was endgame content for us. Lots of stuff to get and see, and basically had the best gear we were going to attain.
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After seeing 9.1 Iâm left with 2 conclusions:
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Blizzardâs staff does not have one original idea between them, imo, as everything reminds of something I saw done better somewhere else.
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If Sanctum of Domination isnât the perfect name for an adult themed club, I donât know what is.
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You are right! IIRC all of the human kingdoms actually started off as cities of the Arathorian Empire that slowly, as the empire declined, developed first as city-states and then into kingdoms, so it makes sense that Alterac kinda blurs that line and didnât quite ascend to full kingdomhood like the others.
I mean, Alterac was choked between Stromgarde and Lordaeron. By all rights, the fertile breadbasket of Hillsbrad ought to have been Alteracâs but Lordaeron was the one who claimed that land.
While siding with the Horde during the Second War did the Kingdom no favors, Alterac was kind of a political punching bag, deliberately kept subservient to its neighbors. Made all the worse when you consider âDay of the Dragonâ, when the waning days of the Second War saw the Alliance leadership fighting over Alterac like jackals over a corpse.
Not gonna lie, Deathwing did the survivors a favor by poisoning that well and basically making the real estate off limits to everyone.
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Come on, Britishman, make me see this cinematic in a new light so I can like it, you glorious shill-man you.
Some good points Tali makes:
- One of the failings of the cinematic is there is no real âArgus moment.â Itâs better to think âI canât wait to go to Argus!â (or equivalent) than to wonder, âOh, where are we going next?â
- We lose in this cinematic. Obviously weâre gonna win in the end but itâs fun to canonically âloseâ a raid.
- Zovaal was possibly (probably?) the original Arbiter. Or there was another Arbiter that was already killed. Either which is kind of cool. (Though itâs another MYYYSTERRRYYY. Boo.)-
- Zovaal is standing on his covenant platform, perhaps the portal is going to his OG covenant zone? Maybe Craftenium, which is mentioned on a sinstone.
- Sylvanas isnât stupid or tricked by the Jailer. But itâs a mix of a Faustian bargain, plus his manipulation, and a bit of Sylvanas lying to herself. I guess this was showed decently well in the previous cinematics, which Tali goes over and shows clips from.
- Humans (and undead elves) are good at lying to ourselves up to a certain point, but thereâs always that potential for cognitive dissonance to overload. This was that breaking point for Sylvanas. The analogy he makes is someone who has always had a feeling their SO was cheating on them but pushes it to the back of their mind, and this moment is like catching the person in the act. No amount of excuses or post-hoc rationalization can work anymore.
- Tali thinks that Sylvanas betrayal of Zovaal isnât an earnest attempt to stop or thwart him. Nor is it a selfless act to save anyone. Itâs basically just her cutting ties because sheâs fed up. Idk if I buy that.
- Zovaal giving Sylvanas her soul back is an act of cruelty. Because, as far as he is concerned, he is going to unmake reality, so sheâs already dead. I also donât agree with this. I think he did want to emotionally and psychologically torture her, and this is the best way to do it. Imagine waking up from a tormented slumber to realize your Tyler Durden murdered thousands including children. Itâs clear he meant to do her no favours by reuniting her with her soul. (Of course itâs a fantasy story and heâs a spooking villain so it will be a part of his undoing but Iâm okay with that, and the Tolkien fanboy in me likes it when thereâs a sort of eucatastrophe and evil undoes itself.)
- There is no redemption or attempt of redemption in the cinematic, from Taliâs perspective. I can see his point, but I donât think it was shown well enough. The scene where she shoots Zovaal is certainly shot to look and feel heroic.
As a cinematic, I hate this less, though. Taliâs analyses have a way of doing that for me tbh. I still feel incredible frustration that this could be so much better. It doesnât have to be great, but it could be good, and itâs just not.
I donât like that Sylvanasâ âbetrayalâ was both from her own realizations and was so âheroic.â One of the other would have been ok, in my book. She is spurned to heroism by another character. Perhaps even moved by mercy from Tyrande or Elune, Idk. OR, she herself realizes her mistakes but betrays Zovaal in a more cunning way. But to have it both ways seems silly. If this is supposed to the vengeful, cunning, survivor part of Sylvanasâ soul, then she should have worked to stop Zovaal that way. Whole Sylvanas firing an arrow at Zovaal works for me, fragmented one doesnât really.
Even though my Sylvanas fatigue is setting in, I also wouldnât have minded no redemption, no reuniting with her soul. What if grabbed the orb before Zovaal did and absorbed it and then just Worfed him? And then later shatters her good part of her soul. That would have been kinda shocking, if thatâs what Blizzard wanted to go for. This brings me to my next point:
Zovaal just needs to be a better villain. We have all these âhintsâ - thatâs all it ever is with Blizz these days - of him enduring some âbetrayalâ from his other pantheon members, some sin he committed in their eyes, etc. TELL US ABOUT THAT! But not only would they not do that, they seem to have pivoted to âblah dominate the world but also unmake itâ generic villain stuff. Tell me how Zovaal mourned for mortal souls being sent to the Maw by the previous Arbiter and killed her, and was locked away for his âheresyâ against the First Ones. Something like that. Iâm so bleeding sick of âmysterryyyyyyâ.
I DO like that Sylvanas, Arthas, Uther, and Anduin now have this sort of shared experience of being Jailer lackies, having shattered souls, etc. I love all of those characters and I think this is interesting development for all of them. I donât agree with the criticisms that making Sylvanas whole ânegatesâ the Sylvanas we knew. It was still all Sylvanas. I like that anyone could be capable of great evil if we had whatever goodness we have magically excised from us.
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Okay, something thatâs long bugged me and that video thumbnail brings it to light. I fully admit I kind of checked out of WoWâs story during Legion and stopped paying attention to the nuance but WHEN did Sylvanas get that weird eye scar? And why is it bright red? Sheâs long dead at this point.
Pretty sure she got it during the duel with Saurfang? With the sword cutting her.
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seeing taliesin try to argue on twitter that sylvanas was being emotionally manipulated by the jailer in some kind of allegory for real life abuse while going âisnât it funny how WOMEN can pick up on that and not MEN 
â is going to be my joker moment
anyway it sure is fun watching people talk about how strong wowâs female characters are before uncritically stating that everything any woman has ever done in this setting has been because of a man and how nothing that these characters do is ever entirely under their own power, but, like, in a girl power way
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Thatâs a wild take, and Iâm sure offensive to many people.
This is the lord of super hell, essentially the storyâs Satan, who is clearly up to no good â˘.
I mean, theyâll probably retcon/add stuff to lore e.g. "oh if Frostmourne killed you, you werenât REALLY you!
But still⌠the reality of emotional manipulation is not served up in this âallegoryâ, to use that term in relation to WoW is a crazy stretch at best.
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As Wolf said, thatâs the one fancy blow Saurfang gave her in the âmakâgoraâ from end of BfA.
The fact they chose that face for the video thumbnail makes me weep.
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I second Wolf and Jiantou on how.
As for the glow⌠my guess is that it is not blood, but rather some sort of residual energy left behind from the cut? The sword Saurfang used, Varianâs old one, was glowing red at the time.
Will Blizz ever explain exactly what that red glow means and why itâs sticking around in Sylvanasâ wound?
Nope.
They think it looks cool and thus it stays, thatâs it.
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Patch 10.0 leak:
-The final fight against the jailer ends with an Arthas style âwipeâ event.
-Instead of being resurrected by a Tyrion type of character the chamber dissolves.
-The opening scene of 10.0 is a Dwarven inn.
-Magni is there.
-Thrall is there as well.
-Jaina is not, we learn later that she has succumbed and is now a boss we will face later.
-10.0 reveals a dissolution of the factions, all players speak common, horde additionally still has orcish as their secondary.
-Nâzoth won, his defeat and all events following, the shattering, the trek through Shadowlands, Covenants, were all a dream in player minds. You were unconscious on the floor of Nâzothâs chamber this whole time while Nâzoth took over Azeroth.
-Magni got the heroes away from the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor to a hidden continent on the other side of Azeroth and using Pandaren mystis erected a new mist to cloak it from Nâzoth.
-World/server event to build a new city hub here.
-Brand new mage tower style challenges to reward cosmetics.
-Have to build up strength and retake Azeroth from Nâzoth.
-The sword weakened his prison, not Azshara. Illidan returns with the Pantheon at some point and helps us remove the sword once and for all and cure the planet.
-Players are unable to defeat Nâzoth, Azeroth belongs to him.
-Retreat off world, begin the next expansion in the Great Dark Beyond.
-Meet the Protoss which in this lore are a Draenei clan that remained in the Great Dark as nomads instead of settling.
World of Warcraft: Intersteller
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Iâm looking for co owners if you want to invest.
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On the âemotional manipulationâ angleâŚ
Thatâd be a take if weâd seen any evidence to it previously. Heck, with Bluther they even had the chance to have some kind of commentary that individual spirits that are killed by Frostmourne donât come out of the encounter entirely themselves (Once they established Frostmourne didnât take ALL a soul).
We got none of that. Zovaal was open and clear about his intentions from the word go, and Sylvanas was 100% cool with it until Kevin Nash/Frank Langella Super Shredder Skeletor Jailer just casually remarked âAll will serveâ in a callback to the Wrath of the Lich King announcement trailer.
And suddenly Sylvanas isnât okay with that.
Thereâs a reason Iâm calling this âWoW: Wings of Libertyâ and âWoW: Heart of the Swarmâ, because just like in that game this narrative âtwistâ is coming out of absolutely nowhere and was not appropriately established.
You want to talk about an actual allegory for abuse, thoughâŚgestures to Anduin You spend more than five seconds thinking about the implications of what heâs gone through, and it gets really gross.
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Por que no los dos?!
Also, we find out Zovaal is the New Sargeras and is killing off the Titans of the Shadowlands with his Mawing Crusade
Azeroth is unaffected and Turalyon starts a proper faction war
Eh. I can see the logic behind the points, but I think that guy is doing too much work to give Blizzard credit. Almost all of his points are basically just conjecture based on what he wants to be true than whatâs actually observable.
I also kind of rolled my eyes at the âitâs an allegory for abuseâ thing. Thereâs giving Blizzard too much credit and then thereâs giving a company with a litany of anti-progressive ideas a Nobel Prize.
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âItâs an allegory for abuseâ seems to be an easy excuse for a company that for several years seemingly has a lot of issues writing compelling motivations for their female characters.
-Kerrigan gets un-zerged then promptly re-zergs herself (But itâs okay this time!)
-Leah becomes Diablo in the 11th hour because.
-Sylvanas was being manipulated by a guy who is pretty damn open about all his motivations to seemingly everyone but her.
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the last time i did popoâs potion patrol in korthia her entire pathway was paved in corpses and like iâm wondering what kind of insane war happened here just to assist this tiny friendly bird person
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Why would he? Kind of goes against his characterization. The reason Anduin chose Turalyon over Genn is because Turalyon actually wants peace between the factions.
Why do people keep talking about WoW characters like they have actual motivations and not just reactions to the plot?
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