60 ilvl of titanforging? Seriously?

Supervitti-arthas · February 22, 2019, 4:57pm

I have mixed opinions. The chance for gear to TF that high is astronomically low. It’s like winning the lotto. Its not nearly as high as you think it is. For reference I have ran 95 M+ 10 or higher keys this season in the search for TF loot. I have seen 1 TF bracers to 425 and some warforged gear from my +10 runs. If there is a decent trinket or something from world quests I’ll do that but otherwise I think I have seen a 15 ilvl TF at most from world quests.

The only other system or idea that I like is that gear has a cap of 10 item levels that it can upgrade to from any particular content. That gear will has a chance to drop at ~10 ilvl boost or you can upgrade the gear with “x” currency to bring it up to that level.

In other words the M+ chest would drop a 410. It could go up to 420. If it does not forge to 420 you could upgrade your 410 over time to 420.
A drop from M+ which is 400 could max out at 410 or you could upgrade it to 410 over time. Either way it maxes out at 410.

Personally though I don’t see them doing away with TF. it keeps people grinding.

Therric-frostwolf · February 22, 2019, 5:12pm

Irisse:

I was doing some casual content today, and got a piece of gear that would usually be ilvl 360 from that source. Instead, it titanforged all the way up to 420, higher than mythic raiding gear. This seems moderately ridiculous.

The chances of warforging by 5 ilvl can’t be higher than 30%, based on having seen scores of warforges out of hundreds or maybe a few thousand drops this expansion. If the chances of each 5 ilvl of forging are the same, a 60 ilvl forge - 12 steps - should happen once in a million drops. Once in maybe a thousand drops seems way too high.

I see a couple possibilities for what’s going on. Either the chances of an additional 5 ilvl of forging goes up with the increasing levels of forging, which seems a really bad idea. Or, there’s a bug in the algorithm.

I hope it’s a bug. The most likely bug is that Blizzard is using a linear congruential (LC) random number generator, and making repeated calls for each level of forging. LC random number generators generate runs of results in the same range that are either too long, or too short (depending on the parameters used, but it’s a one or the other thing; you can’t select parameters that fix this). Blizzard is probably using one that generates too many runs. As a result, 60 ilvl forges, which should be one in a million, end up being maybe one in a thousand or something like that.

There is a simple fix to this. Instead of calling the random number generator repeatedly to determine whether there are multiple forges, call it only once, and use that single random number to look up the level of forging based on the precalculated chances of each level of forging. For example, if the chance of each level of forging is 30%, don’t call the random number generator once per level, checking if the result is less than 0.30 each time; instead, call it once, and if the result is less than 0.30, it forges, if it’s less than 0.30 squared, which is 0.09, it double forges, if it’s less than 0.027, it triple forges, etc.

If the forging algorithm works the way I think it does, that should make highly forged items much rarer, reducing complaints about forging. If instead high levels of forging are actually a design feature of the game, I strongly suggest that this be reconsidered; frequent high levels of forging can make normal sources of high ilvl equipment seem pointless.

Bottom line: high levels of forging are too common; please fix.

It’s a perk and it’s nowhere near prolific.

So hush.

Polaroid-greymane · February 22, 2019, 5:22pm

My question is, how does Titanforging affect your gameplay?
It doesn’t!

I think I’ve gotten one piece of Titanforged gear since before the expansion came out. It is incredibly rare. Also, there was once upon a time where world drops were competitive. In vanilla, it was not uncommon for people to grind mobs for certain epic drops or materials to make weapons that were great.

Stop advocating to ruin the fun for others in getting good drops.

Abendroth-zuljin · February 22, 2019, 5:41pm

While I also can’t post someone with the insane criteria you’re asking, the very fact that it’s possible for even one piece to get that high says it’s possible for the whole set to be.

Koltyra-lightbringer · February 22, 2019, 5:43pm

How many? All? Is this a player who has never raided or done dungeons? Stop leaving out info and link to the armory.

Koltyra-lightbringer · February 22, 2019, 5:45pm

It is in no way “insane criteria”.

If titanforges were as high and common as you claim, you should be able to link us to multiple players who have gotten a mythic level ilvl without ever having raided or done keys. You should also be able to link us to the armories of multiple mythic raiders who are using LFR or other gear from non-raiding or mythic+ content.

If you can’t even show us one of each of these, it didn’t happen. You are making a false claim based on your feelings only.

Abendroth-zuljin · February 22, 2019, 5:50pm

This toon has 6 wf/tf items out of the possible 12. 1 of those are titanforged normal that beat mythic lvl. 1 other is normal with 5 ilvl short of being mythic level.

One is from normal uldir that beats mythic uldir.

I have one trinket not equipped, but it was normal uldir beating mythic uldir.

Koltyra-lightbringer · February 22, 2019, 5:52pm

You did a lot of content. You raided heroic. You’re not the scrub we keep seeing got that better-than-mythic ilvl gear without ever doing hard content.

Abendroth-zuljin · February 22, 2019, 5:54pm

And? The same thing could happen in unchallenging content.

Normal BoD isn’t challenging content.

Koltyra-lightbringer · February 22, 2019, 5:56pm

No, it can’t. The base ilvl of the content you did means you ended up with a higher forge, and the other gear you got is what carried over into your high ilvl.

Arithmetic, man. Nobody gets full 80 ilvl titanforges from LFR.

Abendroth-zuljin · February 22, 2019, 6:01pm

The base level changes yes. But the end level is the same at every tier. The coin just has to keep rolling on the good side and the ilvl keeps going up until max.

Of course, a mythic raider will need less good rolls to get to the max ilvl. But the fact that yes, a lfr player can get it, means that it’s flawed. And not because he got undeserved gear, but because that piece is probably locked.

My bracers are 420. Every single bracers I will get until next tier, even if I do on different difficulty, are just shards. Yes I can trade them and will probably do so. But it still means I could have got a better item or if tf/wf wasn’t this rampant, could have just been an upgrade for that slot.

Medaax-area-52 · February 22, 2019, 6:44pm

Mythic raid roster. 2/9. 420 TF Normal Pants from Stormwall. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t happen to EVERY piece. The fact that you can get BETTER gear from a difficulty TWO lower than the max reward is absurd. It doesn’t matter that it is rare. It matters in the fact that it is possible AT ALL.

Jalen-emerald-dream · February 22, 2019, 6:46pm

^ This. So much this.

Hamstar-draktharon · February 22, 2019, 6:53pm

Why does it matter that a single item can forge like that? I personally like it (even though I have never personally seen higher then a +30).

Sieten-ragnaros · February 22, 2019, 6:57pm

No, go mythicraidcrying somewhere else.

anon9085514 · February 22, 2019, 7:01pm

Players are farming them. They are repeating content over and over until they get WF/TF items.

Medaax-area-52 · February 22, 2019, 7:02pm

Because it removes any desire to ever do that particular boss on a harder difficulty? You shouldn’t be able to progress to a boss without ever pulling it and go…yeah I don’t need anything off this loot table. It shouldn’t happen. A pair of 420 pants is ONLY going to ever be replaced by another forge. That is a flawed system. Forging is “fine” in moderation. I cannot for the life of me ever think of an argument for anything EVER forging past +15. And even then I think +10 should be the cap so that an item from the next difficulty is ALWAYS an upgrade.

Jalen-emerald-dream · February 22, 2019, 7:02pm

Because for me it randomizes gear progression since upgrades can come from anywhere, means I’ll never be able to achieve BiS no matter how hard I put forth effort, and is purely decided by RNG instead of doing something similar to the Thunderforging system that they had in MoP.+

For me it creates a “why bother” feeling since I can just achieve the same ilvl of gear with much less effort.

You know this won’t make me leave. Kind of a waste of a post.

Abendroth-zuljin · February 22, 2019, 7:03pm

The first inclusion of forging was like that. Thunderforged was a fixed addition to the base level. And it never went above what the next difficulty dropped.

Sven-misha · February 22, 2019, 7:06pm

This thread makes me sad because it makes me realize they’re never going to remove Titanforging. There’s too many people defending this garbage system.

I don’t care what you think of me but it’s not about what gear “other people” are getting. It’s about the gear that I’m getting and the content that it invalidates. Out of a possible 12 gear slots that can either WF or TF I have 8 pieces. I already out-gear Normal BoD and I haven’t even cleared it yet. I hardly ever do M+ either, I might do one per week but most of the time I even forget to do that. The highest key I’ve ever done is a single +9, when I do run them it’s usually only in the 5-7 range.

BfA is a loot pinata and while admittedly WF/TF isn’t the main culprit, it certainly isn’t helping.