Sigh, it really depends how Tiny Abomination in a Jar is implemented, but since it’s a serverside script we won’t know till it’s here.
And even then, by sheer virtue of how big the proc is the highest possible parses will come from DBW.
It’s the same as Untamed Blade vs Ashkandi. Untamed Blade has a higher potential than Ashkandi, but on average an Ashkandi will win out.
And what you originally brought up wasn’t what they said …
You know they brought up items and you said boosts and a token.
As examples of Blizzard giving in to greed to show that it isn’t far-fetched to think they might do that in the future. Because before the Token and before Boosts people never thought they’d happen.
I mean almost every MMO has had them.
Even EQ has a token lol.
Many fights in retail throughout the years have been 1 or 2 people messing up causing wipes.
This is not something that can just be easily fixed either, if people want harder fights then something like this will be a thing that you will have to deal with in a MMORPG and especially a team game like WoW where you have to depend on other players not messing up in order to achieve things.
And lots of MMOs let you directly buy character power related items that are still obtainable in game to other players without paying; like selling the trinkets.
ToGC is, to my knowledge, the only one where this costs you loot though.
There is absolutely a reason the x/x mechanic wasn’t kept in the game.
My previous post about this. People don’t mind hard content when you’re not punished for practicing.
An example of experimenting with strats. In BT I saw some Youtube videos on solo tanking Illidan (as the main tank and both fire eles). I asked my guild if I could try it, they agreed and gave me a few tries to get it, ultimately didn’t get it but I was satisfied with trying because it’s fun to do stuff like that.
But if wiping on Illidan meant you are ineligible for a Warglaive I’d have never even suggested it.
50 chest is supposed to be a luxurious reward for people who played fights correctly and didn’t mess up a mechanic that can cause you a wipe.
I can totally see why it IS annoying in todays day and age but back then in OG Wrath you didn’t see every single guild doing 50 chests like you do today, in fact it was a low percent of players that had a 272 cloak during this content patch.
Honestly I wouldn’t mind it being something that stays for now and then during ICC they lower the cloaks from 50 to 45+.
It’s still a bad game design. Cosmetic rewards, sure, but not player power. It created a toxic environment for sure and it’s why they never did something like this again.
This is coming from someone with a 272 cloak lol. Should’ve just been additional tier tokens and nothing else as an incentive combined with the mount
Diablo had ~25 of no p2w Yet D-immortal came with loot boxes and people paid thousands of $$$$ to be in bis & Now D4 sells you 200 Platinum on shop for $2 and you need to use/pay platinum for Equipment bundles.
the grass never stay green this is why i said they haven’t sold gear on wow shop yet but one day they will, at best scenario to not piss off the white knights, Blizzard will sell you Lucky coins on shop for $$ and if every character inside the raid had a coin the boss will drop 8x items instead of 5, or wait a moment! Maybe wow would shutdown before that.
if a game allows you to pay real cash to get advantage over others by any means that’s the definition of pay to win.
““pay-to-win includes both situations where you pay to gain a clear advantage over others, as well as when you must pay to avoid grinding for an absurd amount of time. Some examples fall between these, and may be pay-to-win depending on how strict you are with the definition.””
there are pure pay2win games outta there where everything on shop is obtainable by playing the game but people swipe their Credit card to save time… And this is the same as wow token where players pay real cash to get gold and then buy any gear(even end game gear) with that gold, current wow is pay2win in non-direct way! check trade-chat where top guilds advertising to take fresh characters and saying that he/she can enter raid and AFK LOL
What other raid gives you loot based on the number of attempts it took you to clear? Pretty sure it’s a one-off. And they abandoned limited attempts altogether after this expansion.
That wipe doesn’t cost the group an item more powerful than everything else in the raid. Hello?
Of course it does, you goofball. It’s not like it just costs you time to wipe. A single wipe costs you the most powerful item in the instance.
The most powerful item in the instance? Hardly.
It’s a 272 while everything else is 258. Game BiS for some classes. You’ve misunderstood the central complaint here. It’s not about wiping to one mistake. It’s the fact that that one mistake and one wipe costs the raid dearly.
It is 60 DPS over the next item in line. iLvl isn’t everything. It isn’t costing the raid “dearly”. It is people overreacting. This coming from someone whose guild should be clearing 50/50 each week, but at times does not.
Being rewarded with what is more or less a show-off item for perfect execution is fine.
The item is literally the best cloak in the game for many specs.
One wipe actually costs you loot, unlike every other raid ever. There are really good reasons why this loot format was not carried forward.
Again, you misunderstood this thread from the beginning. The “model of raiding” referred to by the OP is not describing wiping to one mistake. It’s describing the loot system. Because the loot system is weird in ToGC and it doesn’t feel good to lose game bis because you wiped once.
even with the haste proc its better than everything except dv and tiny abom, its just too high ilevel for the other trinkets to compete with
Armor pen isn’t the greatest ret stat but its not 0 EP, shadowmourne has armor pen on it, still bis right? voldrethar? armor pen, alg rings? armor pen, agility, p2 bis
That only holds true for that who use Veressa’s Dexterity/Sylvannas’ Cunning and again not by much.
Yes, it costs you some minor upgrades(from the next in line). It however doesn’t cost anyone dearly and it isn’t going to make or break something.
I am misunderstanding nothing. The OP is complaining about player toxicity from players overreacting to missing out on a chance to get an item that barely increases their DPS over the next in line… and that is only when playing absolutely perfectly… which no one does.
He is further complaining about underperformers that could have previously been carried now being called out for having to be carried in the first place.
It isn’t about the item. This has happened with anything that becomes remotely difficult to do… and will become more so in the future as the raids get more and more difficult.
Sure, you can make it about the item this time, but what will you say when these toxicity threads pop up again for ICC or even further into the future with BoT? There is an underlying issue.
You clearly misunderstood from your literal first words in this thread, if you think the “model of raiding” referred to by the OP was “kept” for future raids.
It’s literally a complaint thread about the loot system. Yes, it’s about the item 
I’m done with this conversation lmao