Why would you join a heroic running guild if you can get the same quality of gear…solo. With 1/50th of the effort/work? Performing simple/trivial “can’t fail” tasks?
This hurts the heroic guild/community. You don’t need 400 ilvl to join a heroic run. Once you hit 400+ you are ready for mythic.
Mythic was cleared at 403…
What would you define as “adequate gear” for your progression content?
@OP I wanna post one question for you, let’s take it to a more philosophical level… which of the following scenarios provide a better and more enjoyable gaming experience for a casual player?..
Scenario 1
You have a game where there’s a variety of content to choose from at different levels of play so you start with “very easy” content and progress at the pace that your time/skill allows you to, then to progress your character you move to “easy” content so you start earning slightly better gear, then you move to “moderate” content and once again you earn better quality gear, at some point you might even start progressing into “hard” content and again your gear rewards and character progression moves along with you.
You might never get close to the same gear to what the hardcore players have but does it really matter when you had fun progressing at your own pace and earned meaningful rewards all along the way?
Scenario 2
You have a game where anyone who is not and “elite” or hardcore player only ever does the same 100% success rate content and his gear progression is entirely tied to RNG drops, there’s some lower difficulty content that you could in theory do but no one bothers since it gives zero rewards in terms of character progression.
But hey that RNG gear it’s actually quite close to what the elite players have, so it must be casual friendly right?. Even though most players don’t enjoy doing that 100% success rate content and just do it for the rewards.
Because the boss fights are fun. The other players can be fun to play and chat with. The transmog is pretty sweet in some cases.
I guess I don’t play the game to get the numbers on my gear higher - so I don’t care about what numbers they are, or how I get them - I just want them to be good enough so I can play the parts of the game I find fun.
As someone who has ran many heroic pugs in addition to alt heroic runs - having the ability to have more players geared well enough to clear those runs is incredibly valuable.
Taking gear away from the player base would hurt me as a “leader” in the heroic guild/community.
Haha. This is awesome.
My point is there are already adequate ways to get people geared to do heroic runs.
400 ilvl to do a heroic run is over gearing it at this point. 400 ilvl is when you are geared to start learning mythic.
Heroic drops 400 loot. Once you hit 385/390…you are geared well enough to clear heroic. Once you are 400 ilvl you are over geared, and are ready to skip heroic and go to mythic.
So if a person is wanting to raid, and has 400+ iilvl, they may just skip heroic guilds completely and look for a guild starting mythic raiding.
I preferred when they just nerfed raids after some time to let stragglers complete it.
This leads to unnecessary iLvl inflation and it still feels like cheating.
The only issue they had previously was with timing for nerfs. If we have pre-announced nerf dates based on completion (maybe 5% after the next reset after 100th guild cleared it, followed by 10-20% after 3 months after that) then everyone should know by when they have to complete it if they want to run it on initial difficulty. I would combine this by some type of upgrade system where you can upgrade your gear by 5% and/or 10% using some currency (like dust or whatever) that you can get from non-raiding activities like WQs.
Depends on your luck. I have some characters that got decent luck and have the right gear for the high end content.
Other characters still need some essential pieces (weapons/trinkets) and RNG just hasn’t been in their favor. This change just gives players more rolls.
It doesn’t necessarily fix the problem - but it helps a little.
As someone who leads heroic raids - I can only see this change as a huge benefit that would have been useful sooner.
I don’t understand how it would impact you - it just adds more players to the pool to choose from.
I guess I just don’t see it adding players. If I could get 400 ilvl and make heroic raiding worthless, I wouldn’t raid heroic outside of doing it once just to get AOTC.
I just see it making 3 tiers of raid content worthless. I see people who struggle with heroic raiding giving up on it, because they can just get same ilvl upgrades doing trivial solo content.
If the gear rewards only went up to 385 base, that would still be more than enough to get your gear for heroic raiding. If weapons/trinkets are your issue, getting heroic quality gear doesn’t help.
Heroic raid quality loot should never be easily and regularly available for trivial/solo content. It decreases so many incentives to now do m+ (even +10s), and anything besides mythic raiding.
Yeah I’m pretty sure you can get to appropriate item level gear to do heroic content already, I mean aside form the two characters I use for Mythic I also have two more alts that I only play about 1h a week (at most, some weeks I don’t even play them), one is at 395 and the other one at 400 item level… forget about Heroic I could bring them to a few Mythic bosses if I wanted to.
I think that the catch-up mechanics implemented for 8.1.5 are already more than enough to bring anyone up to Heroic Raid ready quite quickly (400 item level is actually Mythic Raid ready).
It provides more rolls on getting those item slots filled with better items.
If you play for just the numbers - Sure, I can see how it would remove the incentive to run heroic raids. But if you play to have fun, enjoy the story, the boss fights and mechanics, and/or to play with friends - then extra gear doesn’t hurt you at all, it only helps.
I mean…yeah.
I would argue that if you are only raiding for fun, for the story, the boss fights, mechanics, and to play with friends. They are already doing that. You are easily able to do with without 400 ilvl. I don’t see why a person with 390 ilvl wouldn’t be raiding for fun, to play with friends. But someone with a 400 ilvl suddenly would.
Will it make it easier for the people already doing it? Sure. I just don’t see it bringing in new people.
Except for the fact that this game had something like 4 to 6 times it’s population back when there was nothing even remotely approaching the welfare loot they give out today.
I have no idea why posters with your perspective are utterly unable to see the point people who disagree are making and why you always jump to this “eliters gonna elite” type defensive reaction.
Yes, you are correct, it’s nice to have catch up mechanics for alts. Very few people have the time (or inclination) to keep 4, 5, 6 or more characters high-end raid geared and “current.” But there’s a marked difference between “Hey I just leveled a new character/bought the game and boosted a toon, can you help a brotha/sista out so I can get right to the action?” and “I don’t feel like putting in the work on a new character so just gear me, Blizz.”
At no other point in this game’s history has Blizzard given out loot equal to the current raid tier in IL or power. Even as far back as BC when they introduced the vendor on Isle of Quel’Danas the loot was only about SSC/TK IL. It was not Sunwell gear and didn’t invalidate the Sunwell raid. The fact that you can do an emissary for the same level of azerite gear as a current heroic raid boss is mind-boggling to say the least.
Now yes, there are elitists out there who don’t want anyone else to have anything so they can walk around big-d style like Asmongold. But that’s a very small part of the population I’d wager. I’d posit the vast majority of the people who are against this or have some issue with it simply feel it’s far too much far too soon. Calling anyone who disagrees with you “elitist” doesn’t make your perspective any more right or the anti-welfare people any more wrong.
TLDR you have your opinion and that’s totally fine; others disagree. But please stop using that incorrect argument that people would stop logging in if the over the top catch up systems were removed. Wrath didn’t have one and had 12m people. BFA has a Monty Haul one and we have maybe 2-3m subs tops.
I’m OK with the highest level gear being given for highly skilled play or for a lot of grinding; if you’re not super skilled and are also short on time, the grinding method at least feels open to you, and properly designed can offer you occasional rewards to keep you happy as you expend what time you have.
…but receiving high-level rewards for no hard-effort skill AND no time commitment isn’t psychologically rewarding in the long term in this game, in any game, or in real life.
Is this a joke? I’m not a raider, so I decided to try M+. I crawl through broken glass to reach Mythic10, I’m not a pro player, I tried and tried and finally reach it, and now people doing WQs can get same rewards as I. Done with this game. I’m glad Mythic raiders can still get their big ilvl loot, but I can’t, I’m not mythic raider, I was happy reaching 400 ilvl, but now it means nothing. No point playing if I can’t progress, and no social elements left with sharding and crossrealm, game literally has nothing attractive anymore.
Agreed. This is becoming troublesome, and concerning with how much they’re invalidating content. Including with the fact that we were told Crucible of Storms is on the same tier as BoD (and it’s evident in the gear aesthetics as well). This is bad juju if this continues.
Agreed. For some reason Blizz is abandoning what made the game successful. WoW used to have the best progression systems and the best combat in any MMO by far. Now we have 3 button specs plagued with GCD, and bass-ackwards loot progression systems that vomit Heroic raid loot at players if they can turn their monitor on. It’s a disgrace really, and sad to see.
The amount of people in this thread who seem to not actually enjoy the game itself is staggering. If the only reason you do difficult content is so you can stand around in a city hoping someone gets impressed by your item level then maybe you should re-consider why you are playing this game.
If Susie McCasual who only does WQs and spends barely a handful of hours each week playing has a 400ilevel, who cares? That player may as well not exist to Mythic Raiders and people running +15s, regardless of her ilevel.
This isn’t about mythic raiders.
This is about making it absolutely pointless to be a normal or heroic raider.
I mean. Why stop at WQs? If its going to be that trivial, why not put heroic raid tier quality loot on a vendor to buy for 1 gold each.
Of course you do:
I pay 15 bucks a month, while I like solo play.