Sendryn
Continue to argue with yourself then, b/c i’m not doing it anymore. I try to learn from people who have differing opinions than me but you and a few others already on igonre just take things to a new low with the trolling and the “nope nope nope” crap and are generally just unhelpful. Find a new hobby will you?
To the devs (if you even read this)–you went too hard on the “over-correction” on kicking players as you so often do with anything where punishments are a possibility.
Look to the reasons people leave, look to the reasons people kick and FIX THEM. Going hard on punishing players reeks of mismanagement and arrogance to your own failings.
Stop punishing players who are kicked if you’re not going ot do the work in finding out why.
The first kick should be penalty-free, anything after that can have a debuff that starts at 10m and goes up from there and resets daily. Kicking newbs to the game for not going fast enough is terrible toxic behavior that your own policies are making worse.
If you refuse to take “L’s” on dungeons people dont want to do and allow blacklisting, youre contributing to the problem (you could also i dunno…re-design them too)
If you refuse to put loot @ the end of duingeons to incentivize completion; you’re part of the problem
If you refuse to clamp down on people kicking for stupid reasons (i dont like your transmog, you’re not going fast enough for me…") and wont make it more difficult (PER ACCOUNT) for people to constantly initiate kicks, you’re part of the problem.
I’ve been playing near 20 years. I dont like the way this feels for players and I dont like how piss-poor of a reception this creates for new people. We have to do better.
PS - i’m not someone reguarly kicked from groups but this move after the Ara Kara thing really stuck in my craw b/c it was the LEAST EFFORT the people over @ blizz could make to fix systemic issues with the queued system and most of these are things we’ve been asking for for years. Wake up devs.
Yeah it’s telling when those who seem to live on the forums have nothing better to do than be entirely unhelpful and cherrypick parts of a discussion to push their unhelpfulness even further.
I’m sure if it was actually abused as much as the 15* players claim it is, we would of had Blizzard comment on it by now considering they commented when m+ was being screwed over regularly
And hey, if blizz does make a post about it, I’ll gladly eat my words but I’ll later on have to ask for a spoon so I can awkwardly scoop the smaller words into my mouth
Thankfully a lot of the kicked players come here and do the work for us.
They show us lovely vods claiming they did nothing wrong, yet when you watch the vod. You can immediately see a many number of problems.
I think the REAL problem is people not taking accountability. It’s easier to blame everyone else.
That’s one solution out of a many number. Limiting it to just one then saying they are the problem for agreeing/not agreeing is a just wrong.
And the fact of the matter is, the change to the debuff applying to leaving at ANY point in the dungeon fixed the leaving problem. Was it the solution people wanted? No, but it worked.
And the problem with “cracking down” is the game has literal millions of players. It is pretty much impossible to police the system. Which is why they went with the majority rule method.
And if they change it to check boxes for reasons instead of fill in the blank. People can still kick for whatever reason, it’ll just be under whatever misc checkbox they chose.
It’s not a system problem. It’s a mentality problem. But it’s also not limited to wow. Go play any other online game. You’ll see the same behavior and tendencies. Heck, if you work with people on a daily basis irl. You see the same behaviors you see in-game.
I’d argue that it didn’t fix it, and is instead causing this current spat of VTK spam threads.
What fixed the issues from pre-season was M0 (and later M+) coming out and removing a lot of players from the LFD queue by giving them something better to do, with more than just one item that they wanted.
Eh true, but it tends to be almost the same copy/paste. Then get’s derailed from the same people.
That’s why I can’t believe it’s a problem. Especially when most of the op’s tend to be bad faith to begin with with a fake sob story.
You see the vod and just facepalm and want to scream :“ACCOUNTABILITY PLEASE? Someone anyone? Hello?”
Like granted misc stupid kicks happen. I just find it annoying that we can’t just talk about the problems and they get hyper inflated and they just lie to us
Then it also doesn’t help you have people like op posting on a misc alt, starting a fire in gd then sitting back and watching people fight lol.
How about this - anyone can leave at any time with no debuff.
Simple majority still rules, no debuff… UNLESS every single person votes them out. Then, the debuff will most definitely tell that player they received a unanimous decision.
Provide aug runes via weekly quest for each role. 5 dungeons tanked, Aug rune reward. 5 dungeons healed, same thing. Same for dps. Run only counts if last boss killed.
thanks for the input, but i’m not convinced anything I said was wrong or out of the blue and just b/c this toxic bheavior is the “norm” everywhere else, it doens’t mean we have to have it.
I dont expect them to police every interaction–what I expect is them to be a bit more lenient than they are right now. I just did some TW and people kicked a healer who got lost (new player). I voted against it but the kick stood. I left after that (as tank) b/c i dont like that kind of crap and then I was promptly punished for leaving.
So the people being toxic are basically rewarded for doing so. That healer and I were unable to queue again for 30 minutes b/c the other three dps were being azzhats. And all this over what? b/c some crying dps were mad that tanks and healers didnt want to do the occulus 200 years ago? cry me a river. Blizz needs to quit caving to the blood-seekers. There are plenty of ways to steer behavior without immediately resorting to punishments.
This NOT how the system was designed to work (or at least the intention) but here we are.
I named several things they can change about the queuable system that should result in less needs to kick but it requires work on their part. Gasp. How dare i?
It’s not the “norm everywhere else”. I was merely pointing out that the problem doesn’t exist in wow exclusively.
If anything, there is a pandemic of lack of accountability more so than a “kick abuse” problem.
This was all pretty well said but what you essentially have is players begging for the ability to hinder the progress of others. Why would Blizzard turn down that golden opportunity? It’s likely to just lead to more people in delves/follower dungeons now as opposed to actual sub losses.
It’s a W/W for Blizz when the community begs for the opportunity to timegate each other and push others to their shiny new things for engagement metrics.
I agree with this, especially with cancel culture. It’s like we’re rewarding for bad behavior with allowing even worse behavior. I see no growth and learning from this type of behavior.
However, if someone that you have been inserted into an instance with is not pulling their weight and you’ve wiped multiple times because of said person, it would be natural to kick. I’ve said this before, I’ve had to kick a healer. We kept wiping. I asked if they were new and they said yes… group leader initiated the kick, we voted, it got done.
Personally, I’ve never seen anyone leave an instance because they don’t like it. I’m sure it happens, but I’ve never encountered it.
What I initially read from the OP was about the abuse of this system, which does happen. I know because I’ve watched it happen to my husband and it’s happened to me. It was exponentially worse during the anniversary event. Too many churn and burn types and most of us were just trying to keep up and get a shot off at the boss.
What is very frustrating with some of these responses is that they make a blanket statement that there is no abuse and it’s working as intended. Perhaps they’ve never encountered being randomly kicked for no reason that they are aware of and don’t understand the struggle, especially after waiting so long to queue. That doesn’t mean the abuse doesn’t exist. They’ve never seen it, and I’m happy they haven’t. Good analogy for this would be… I’ve never been to Antarctica, but I know it exists. The same applies to this issue.
Bailing on an instance is completely different than being kicked, which was one of the OP’s points. Why should they hold the same punishment? It doesn’t make sense. Maybe it does to some, but there are too many that believe the opposite.
Give a loot box for finishing the dungeon, like they give when you’re leveling - that can contain any item from the dungeon pools. Plus the issue ‘resolved’ itself after mythic released, I’m told.
Also, Blizz should ban people for griefing other people with vote kick. That simple.
