Fundamentally its an attack speed issue and a lack of a second rune that are holding back 2H weapons from getting close to DW output.
Might of the Frozen Waste (MoTFW) in a simplistic way addressed both of those issues. It wouldn’t change the fact the talent tree is obviously geared towards DW game-play but at this point it would be a welcomed return - its a bit much to expect a complete talent tree overhaul now.
It would also potentially bolster 2H Obliterate damage and if the talent Obliteration was to be reworked it might be possible to have a return to those big juicy 2H crits many of us crave. They could even just make that one talent exclusive for 2H weapons to ensure it is powerful enough to plug some bigger gaps in other talents.
Asking for the return of MoTFW and the talent Obliteration to be changed to me are not massive requests at this juncture. While I would love two distinct pathways in the talent tree that is an unrealistic expectation.
I will say no to the obliteration talent if changed to be 2h only. Limiting DW to BoS is where I will absolutely put a foot down and line in the sand. No no no.
A split in the spec is what held the spec back in WoD at the very least. Other specs were doing double of what frost was, even unholy doing double dps in certain scenarios.
I would rather have 2h be behind and still an option for people that want to RP Arthas or Bolvar and have something that is on par with other specs than to be left behind because the split makes it hard to balance.
The proc on top of a proc, basically wasting procs, wasn’t a big issue or really even an issue that KM being based off of just autos had. Going back to that would give more power to the guaranteed crit as well making it feel better to actually use. With the spec critting on its own does a KM proc feel at all important or impactful? To me it doesn’t. It hasn’t for 2 expansions.
Im a bit confused. Why would it be impossible for blizzard to either:
1.) Create a condition that could internally differentiate a two handed weapon from a one hander and use the weapon type’s respective formula. Then blizz could use their simulations to calculate the ideal rpm value needed to make 2h on par with 1h, and put that rpm value into their respective formulas.
2.) They could also just create two different killing machine abilities that do what i listed above. Killing Machine(One-handed), Killing Machine(Two-Handed).
Any thoughts on this?
You’re not confused its just someone’s way of trying to be a kill joy about 2h frost coming back. It could be done that way and it could be done any number of ways.
I always liked the idea of having the runes set up like stances. You can just choose which one you wanted on the fly, with a short cast time. This is also assuming RI would go passive for frost.
I think the points Kelliste has made have merit, s/he just says them in a very aggressive manner. To boil it down in a not aggressive manner:
2h vs DW should not have a different style of playing. Frost is frost, the choice of weapons should not have an effect on the playstyle.
1a. The two weapon groups being split into different playstyles is also what has caused the spec to fall significantly behind in prior expansions, so it is wandering into the territory of making frost weak for all of Shadowlands.
Blizzard will most likely not change the entire enchanting system just to allow 2h to have a second runeforge. While the issue could be solved in other ways, it will not be done in this way most likely.
Unless KM is changed radically from its current design, 2h will always end up falling behind because it will not get enough crits to achieve the PPM.
The other option is to nerf how the mechanics currently work for DW, but its been intended to work that way because of Frost being only DW.
If Blizzard wants to make 2h and DW work together in 1 talent tree, the talents and mechanics will all need a substantial rework which Blizzard likely is not willing to do.
I think that makes a good summary of his/her issues.
We’ll likely see what Blizzard has in store for Frost tuning once they’re added to Torghast since it seems that’s how they’re currently doing some of the tuning.
Why’s everyone keep acting like it would be so terribly hard for Blizzard to toss a new passive in Frost’s spellbook? Something like “Whenever the Death Knight has a 2H weapon equipped, increase the proc rate of Killing Machine by (whatever % increase puts KM procs on par with DW) and gain the effect of Rune of Razorice baseline”. Granted, DW will still build stacks of Razorice just slightly faster but that alone can’t possibly be enough to make 2H nonviable.
All you do on the forms is try to bring peoples hopes down lmao you must have a sad life, they can easily balance it like before making 2h obliterate hit 50% harder
you do not want to tip your damage towards Obliterate and its non scaling self. that was the original downfall of 2hnd frost where it was “more oblits and less frost dmg” and then Dual wield slide right by because it had stronger Frost Strikes (breath didnt exist at the time Cata) and so it had far better Mastery/Crit/haste scaling.
